TASK FORCE ON COMMUNITY SCHOOL
DISTRICT GOVERNANCE REFORM
Task Force on Community School District Governance Reform
Developing recommendations regarding the powers and duties of the
New York City community school boards
Hostos Community College, Savoy Building
120 East Walton Avenue
Grand Concourse
Bronx, New York
Thursday, December 19, 2002
10:20 a.m.
MEMBERS OF THE TASK FORCE
ASSEMBLYMAN STEVEN SANDERS, CO-CHAIR
ASSEMBLYWOMAN TERRI THOMSON, CO-CHAIR
ASSEMBLYWOMAN AUDREY PHEFFER
ASSEMBLYMAN ROGER GREEN
ASSEMBLYMAN PETER RIVERA
ASSEMBLYMAN JOHN LAVELLE
YANHEE HAHN
ROBERT DE LEON
KATHRYN WYLDE
RENEE C. HILL
C. BUNNY REDDINGTON
ROBIN BROWN
VIRGINA KEE
ERNEST CLAYTON
GERALD LEVIN
JACK FRIEDMAN
ROSE MC KENNA
JANE ARCE-BELLO
CASSANDRA MULLEN
PENELOPE KREITZER
LIST OF SPEAKERS
PAGE
Adolfo Carrion
Bronx Borough President 16
Lorraine Cortes-Vazquez
President Hispanic Federation 53
Oliver Koppell
Councilman Bronx 67
Natalie Gomez-Velez
Bronx Representative
New York City Panel for Educational
Policy 87
Dorothea Marcus
Community School Board 10 102
Betsy Combier
President Parent Advocates Organization 114
Herman Francis
Community School Board 7 120
Albert V. Tuitt, Sr.
Special Committee on Internal Affairs,
NAACP 130
Gladys Rosenblum
Executive Director
Loisaida, Inc. 148
Robert Press
Parent Activist 162
Mimi Lieber
Founder & Chair
Literacy, Inc. 175
Connie Blake
Education Chair
NAACP 192
Arlene Trehene
CS-4 Title I
Chairperson 215
Alex Betancourt
Deputy Executive Director
ASPIRA of New York, Inc. 235
Jeffrey Dinowitz
Assemblyman 250
Jean DePesa
Parent Advocate 265
Josette Santana
President
PTA P.S. 246 271
Lucretia Jones
Mothers on the Move 278
Carmen Maldanado-Santos
Mothers on the Move 287
Kenneth Jackson
PTA President & S.L.T. Chair 291
Ted Weinstein
Executive Vice President
Community School Board 10 306
Cordell Schachter
President
Community School Board 10 317
Silky Martinez
Parent Organizing Consortium 327
Francis Calderon
Parent Organizing Consortium 327
Oswald White
Parent Organizing Consortium 334
Jessie McDonald
Parent Organizing Consortium 338
Altagracia Cruz
President PTA, P.S. 60 350
Yolanda Gonzales 352
Richelle Braithwaite
New York Youth At Risk, Inc. 356
Gwendolyn Primus
President Community School Board 9 365
David Francis
Community Board 10 366
Neyda Franco
Community Advocate
Pueblo En Marcha 370
Debra Young
Vice President
PTA P.S. 142 375
Almada Tramel
Vice President
President's Council District 7 377
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: All right. We're going
to begin. You could all find your seats.
Good morning, everyone. Thank you members
of the Task Force for being here at our third Public
Hearing. My name is Steve Sanders. I am the Chairman,
the Co-Chair, of this Task Force on Community School
District Governance Reform. I'm also Chairman of the
Assembly Education Committee.
Normally seated next to me would be Terri
Thomson who is the other Co-Chair of this Task Force.
Terri Thomson had shoulder surgery yesterday, just
yesterday. She is listening to these proceedings. We
have been able to connect Terri from her convalescent,
convalescing bedside, so she will be able to hear all of
these proceedings and less than 24 hours after her
surgery, she's a real trooper for being able to be at
least up and around, and she wanted to make sure she
heard all of the testimony. So she will be listening in.
And she said, good morning, in case you
didn't hear her. She won't be able to participate
verbally because we were unable to do that. But she will
be listening in to all of the testimony.
Before the Task Force members give a brief
introduction of themselves, I just want to give a brief
introduction as to the origins of this Task Force, the
work that we have done thus far and the work that lies
before us. As many of you know, in June of this year,
the State Legislature passed a law that provided the
rather sweeping and traumatic overhaul of the New York
City Public School System.
Much of the changes that were made and
enacted at that time provided greater centralization of
authority, greater authority to the Mayor, greater
authority to the schools' Chancellor, greater authority
to the schools' Superintendents. The legislation did a
lot of other things as well, which I won't go into at
this time. But one of the other measures, important
measures in that law was the abolition of the local
community school boards that have existed for a little
over three decades.
However, the legislature in phasing out
the school boards as of June 30th of this year, did not
want to leave a void and did not want to leave
communities and school districts without representation
at the school district level. So part of that
legislation provided for the creation of this Task Force
and the requirement on the Task Force to hold public
hearings in every borough of the city, to have other
meetings and other informational initiatives to provide
the Task Force members with as much information and the
broadest amount of input from the public so that we could
formulate a proposal and recommendations as the law
requires to replace the local community school boards
with some other form of representation from the community
and input from parents who live in the community and who
send their children to local schools.
We are required by law to make our
recommendations to the Governor and to the State
Legislature no later than February the 15th. And I can
assure not only the Task Force members, but the public
that this Task Force will in fact meet those deadlines,
those obligations. We will formulate a proposal by
February 15th. But the important part of this process is
the public input.
Last week we held our first two public
hearings, last Tuesday in Manhattan, followed by a second
hearing last Thursday in Queens. Today we are proud to
be in the borough of the Bronx and we are grateful for
Hostos College for having made its wonderful facilities
available to this Task Force.
After the conclusion of today's hearing,
early in January, on Monday, January the 6th, we will be
holding a public hearing on Staten Island and we will
conclude the public hearing phase on Thursday, January
the 16th in Brooklyn. Even though these hearings are
organized as a law requires in each borough, individuals
are certainly free to testify in whatever borough they
wish to appear and be heard.
Moreover, there is a record of these
public hearings being kept. We have a -- we're lucky to
have Eddie back today, who is keeping a careful record of
these proceedings. There was a public record. It will
be available to the public at some point in time, and it
will be the information that is presented to this Task
Force and digested by the members of this Task Force that
will help to guide us in our deliberations with respect
to how to provide adequate and we hope better community
representation at the school district and the school
level.
We have divided each of these hearings,
incidently, into two sessions. The first session for
each of these hearings begins in the morning at or about
10:00 to run until the late afternoon, 4:00 area. And
then we have a second session in each borough that begins
at 6:00 in the evening. Obviously, we have tried, as
best as we know how, to make these hearings as accessible
as possible for the public. We know that many people who
may want to testify are working moms and dads, or just
the working men and women who want to make their views
known and the evening hours, often times, is more
convenient. So we have tried to arrange our schedule to
be available as much as we possibly can.
I would just make mention of the fact, two
things in conclusion before I ask the members of the Task
Force to give a brief introduction of themselves. I know
that you all have a lot to say. This is a big issue.
This is an important issue. This is education and
there's nothing more important than education for our
children, for the future of the city of New York.
However I do have to ask you to all try
very hard to confine your remarks to about five minutes.
We have a lengthy witness list. There are other people
who perhaps have not signed up in advance, who we will
try to accommodate as the day goes on. So I will ask
you, plead with you to try to keep your remarks to about
five minutes. If you have gone beyond that amount of
time, I will give you a gentle sign and ask you to please
conclude. So please do not detect that as any
disrespect. It's just that we need to keep the day
moving as best as we can.
And finally, let me just make this final
mention. I'll probably be repeating this during the
course of the day. Our mission and our parameters, as
established by the State Legislature in June is not to
make a decision as to whether the current local community
school board structure ought to remain or be replaced.
That is not our purview. That decision was already made
by the State Legislature.
Our requirement and our mission is to find
a structure, to find an entity, to find a community
representation that we hope will be enhanced. But it is
to replace the local community school boards. I know
we've already heard testimony from a number of people who
would like the school boards to remain, and the only
point that I am making is that that decision has already
been made. So we are focusing our attention on how we
will replace, revise, reform the local community school
boards and I would also ask that you try to direct your
recommendations, your comments, your observations to how
it is best to replace the local community school boards.
Let me now start to my far left, your
right, and ask each of the Task Force members if they
would just give a -- identify themselves and any brief
comment they'd like to make.
MS. MULLEN: Cassandra Mullen, I'm from
Howard Beach in Queens.
MS. ARCE-BELLO: Jane Arce-Bello from this
great borough of the Bronx, a Community Activist.
MS. MC KENNA: Rose McKenna from the
Bronx.
MR. FRIEDMAN: Hi, my name is Jack
Friedman. I spent ten years as a Community School Board
member in northeast Queens, and most importantly I'm a
parent two children that go to New York City Public
Schools.
MR. LEVIN: I'm Jerry Levin, the retired
CEO of AOL/Time Warner. My family and I are committed to
public education in New York City, most particularly in
the Bronx, and in the Bronx at Taft High School.
HON. LAVELLE: I'm John Lavelle. I am an
Assemblyman from Staten Island and a member of the
Education Committee in the New York State Assembly.
MR. CLAYTON: My name is Ernest Clayton,
President of the United Parents Associations of New York
City. I have six sons in the public school system. I,
myself, am a product of the public school education and a
graduate of CUNY.
ASSEMBLYMAN RIVERA: I'm Peter Rivera.
I'm a member of the State Assembly from the Bronx. I'm
very active in school governance. I was part of the
original School Governance Task Force.
MS. KEE: Good morning. I'm Virginia Kee
and I'm the founding member of the Chinese-American
Planning Council, which is the largest service
organization for Asian-Americans. I've been on the New
York City Commission of Human Rights and I've been a
teacher for 34 years in the classroom.
MS. REDDINGTON: Good morning. My name is
Bunny Reddington from Staten Island. I currently serve
as Vice Chair on District 31's Community School Board.
ASSEMBLYWOMAN PHEFFER: Good morning.
Assemblywoman Audrey Pheffer and I represent South
Queens.
MS. WYLDE: Kathy Wylde, I'm from
Brooklyn, and I'm President of the New York City
Partnership, which is a citywide business leadership
organization.
MR. DE LEON: Robert DeLeon, Manhattan
East Harlem parent activist, former parent activist.
MS. HAHN: Yanghee Hahn, retired human
rights specialist of New York City Commission of Human
Rights, currently serving the Executive Vice President of
Korean-American Association of Flushing.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: I should also make
mention the fact we have a Spanish translator who is
here. So if -- she is seated in the back to my right.
So if there -- and I will make also this announcement
periodically during the day. So if there are either
members of the audience or witnesses who need the
services of a translator, we are geared up for that.
And I also want to thank at the outset
Sandra Ruiz, who is Chief Executive to the President of
this fine institution and Cesar Baretto. Mr. Baretto is
there in the back. Thank you very much for the great job
that you've provided in setting up this wonderful
facility. You have made us all feel so very welcome and
right at home hear in the heart of the great, great
borough of the Bronx.
And having made mention of the great,
great borough of the Bronx, it is my pleasure to
introduce our first witness of the day, the great, great,
Bronx Borough President, Adolfo Carrion.
BOROUGH PRESIDENT CARRION: Good morning
and welcome to the mainland, United States.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: We in Manhattan
sometimes refer to it as upstate, you know.
HON. CARRION: Chairman Sanders and
Assemblyman Rivera, all members of the Task Force, Terri
Thomson, my good friend who is on the phone, good morning
and thank you for this opportunity. I think this is
probably the most important conversation that we could be
having as a city because I believe that the single, most
important function of government is to ensure that we
education so that we can allow full participation in this
democracy and full competition in this economy. And in
order to achieve that, there has to be a full engagement
by the communities and ultimately they are the customers
of this enterprise.
I want to welcome the Task Force to the
Bronx. This is the single most important issue for us in
the borough of the Bronx, given where our standing is in
terms of outcomes, educational outcomes for our children.
I have a personal stake in this, because I have four
bambinos. Three of them are old enough to be in public
school. Olivia is seven. Sarah is ten today. Today's
her birthday, and Rachel is 13. And my son, A.J. is
four years old and about to enter and I am a big
supporter of public education as a principal of this
style of democracy that we've set up for ourselves.
What I'm going to do is, I'm going to
share with you some of my prepared text and then I'm
going to talk to you a little bit from the heart. The
prepared text is sort of a compilation of my thoughts
over the last year and a half, year maybe. I will share
with you that just last Saturday morning we were a few
blocks away from here, having a discussion about school
governance with Assemblyman Rivera, other members of the
New York State Assembly from the Bronx, other Bronx
leaders, Bronx parents and asking ourselves what is the
best construct for engagement of the communities in the
educational process. And I have a -- I presented a
proposal to the group that was in principle accepted. I
think that there was a consensus built around the concept
that I'm going to present to you, and I'm very excited
about that.
Having been a school teacher, being a
parent, and being a public official, elected and I was a
district manager of a Community Planning Board for five
years. So, I've looked at the -- and being a customer of
the education system, I'm a product of the public school
system, P.S. 111, Junior High School 142 and Harry Truman
High School. So, I've been in relationship to our
education system in many ways. Let me read from my
prepared text.
Thank you for this opportunity to present
testimony on the future of public participation in the
governance of the New York City Public Schools. The
middle 1960's struggle for decentralization in New York
City was about the representation of people who could not
get to the table on policy decisions affecting their
children. The battle was won in the creation of
independently elected Community School Boards. The
implied promise of the elected school boards was that
they would engage parents and make education work better
for communities. In 2002, we are facing what
I consider the unfinished business of that effort by
creating a means of making that engagement effective. We
need parents to be prepared to represent themselves and
exercise their options in the best interest of their
children in the schools. We must confront this question
of meaningful representation at a time when the public
confidence in our schools is at an all time low, and the
need for excellent schools has never been greater. We
are faced with the challenges of eroding financial
support from Washington and Albany and City Hall as they
attempt to hid the structural deficits that have been
created, especially after the aftermath -- in the
aftermath of September 11, 2001.
Our challenge is very basic. How do we
gain the active participation of parents on behalf of
their children? How do we meaningfully engage the
parents of our public school children in the
representation of the real and pressing issues
of schools and communities? And then how do we carry the
information from those schools to the halls of the City
Council, The Office of the Mayor, the Executive Chamber
of the Governor and the Halls of Congress so that the
remaining elected officials understand that all of our
actions must be transparent, accountable, and responsive
and will be evaluated in the context of how they improve
the outcomes for our children.
I have a simple proposal to promote
transparency, accountability, and responsiveness. First,
I propose the creation of District Parent Councils made
of parents -- made up of parents elected by parents to
focus the issues of representation and parental
engagement on improving outcomes for our children.
Second, I propose the establishment of Borough Boards for
Education Planning to integrate planning for schools with
planning for communities and to create an independent
means of articulating the needs of schools in communities
to the Mayor and the City Council.
Let me just parenthetically say that as a
professional urban planner, I think what has happened by
default, I don't think that it was really by design. I
think it was by default, that education planning has
occurred in a vacuum. The conversation about education
has occurred in a vacuum. We sort of isolated it away
from the civic life and the community life and the
planning life of the city. So we have this planning
board structure in the City of New York. We have 59
districts that they're engaged in the budget priorities,
land use decisions. They engage with the local officials
in the conversation about the quality of life in their
neighborhoods. But never in that conversation is there
an insertion, I think it certainly not by design, an
insertion of the education process as a part of that
engagement.
You know, I think it's sort of isolated.
We do community planning and development and economic
development and municipal service delivery and then we do
education. And I think what we need to do is we need to
have an integration of civic life, neighborhood life, and
the conversation about our education system and the
outcomes has to be connected to the reality of who we are
as a city, how we behave economically, and how we behave
in terms of our land use decision, and how we physically
develop the city, and how we deliver services, and who's
getting the services, and the budget priorities in other
areas and how they impact the preparedness of that
community to be educated.
And so, it's more of a holistic approach
and here's what I mean. And I'm going to move away from
the text because it's -- I speak better without a
prepared text.
Here's the structure. It's from the
bottom up. We have District Parents Councils. The
District Parent Councils are made up of all the elected -
- at the school level elected parents that are elected by
other parents in their schools. They constitute this
District Parents Council. This District Parents Council
then has a representative. We break up the school
districts from 32 school districts to 59 school
districts. The 59 school districts then become
commensurate with the Community Planning Districts, the
Community Planning Boards.
And if you go back to the original idea, I
think it was in the Lindsey Administration where there
was this attempt to put -- to reverse the top down
planning that had been occurring with Bob Moses. To say
to communities, we want to respect you. We want you to
be fully engaged. And the way you're going to be fully
engaged is you're going to determine the destiny of your
neighborhood by participating in the planning process,
and the land use decisions, in the budget priority
decision. You're going to tell City Hall how you think
your neighborhood should develop.
I think what we can do is take that model
with all it's pluses and some of its minuses, and there's
always room for improvement, and superimpose our
education districts over those municipal service
districts. Those planning boards then would have an
education committee that was more meaningfully
participating in the process.
But we would have separate, separate
District Parent Councils. Each of those District Parent
Councils would have a representative that would sit on a
Borough Board. The Borough Board would be chaired by the
Borough President who has statutory powers over municipal
service delivery, who has participation in the budget
process, who works with every elected official so has to
have the view, the bird's eye view of the entire borough
and all the interests of all the communities in that
borough, not just any single district. So there is a
balancing of interests that happens here.
And that Borough Board would then be made
up of what I call the major stakeholder, and the major
stakeholder are members of industry. In the Bronx for
instance, one in four workers works in the health
industry. There is no real continuum right now between
the education system and the needs of that industry. I
think some of the universities are doing, certainly
Hostos is doing it and they churn out nurses, and they
churn out techs and they end up in the health industry.
But we need to create a more clear connection between the
preparation of people in the education system and the
needs of the market place. So you would have the
stakeholder of industry in that borough sitting on this
Borough Board.
You would also have the Community Boards
sitting on this Borough Board. You would also have the
representatives of all the District Parent Councils
sitting on this Borough Board. And then you would have
another layer in this structure which is the three
superintendents for the three levels of the school
system.
Here's what I'm suggesting in this
structure. Every one of those Education Planning
Districts that are now commensurate with the Community
Planning Board Districts would each have an Education
Administrator. They would run the day to day operations,
similar to what the Deputy Superintendents now do. For
purposes of education planning, zoning, facilities
planning, education policy, you would have a
superintendent for the borough for elementary schools, a
superintendent for the borough for middle schools, and a
high schools superintendent. We already have a high
schools superintendent. So that each of these
superintendents of the three levels would represent the
entire borough, all the children of the borough at this
Borough Board level and would work with each of the local
administrative superintendents at the local level.
This would allow in effect a filtering up,
or a trickling up of the education priorities of
communities. It would allow us on a borough level to
coordinate the efforts of how we construct schools, where
they get constructed, our resources being distributed
fairly, because one of the things that happens now and
there's fights between districts all the time, why is one
district getting more than another district? When you
have a borough level structure, you can look at the
entire borough. You can look at the interests of every
single neighborhood, every community and ensure that in
the end, every child is getting what they need.
Let me talk a little bit about the role
and the responsibility of this Borough Board, and I know
I've gone over my five minutes. The idea here is for
this board to do what the local school boards used to do,
without the baggage of the local politics and with full
representation from all interested parties. This body
would incorporate education into the overall planning
responsibilities of the Office of the Borough President.
We're responsible as Borough Presidents
for a good number of things, certainly to play chief
executive and balance the interests and work with every
elected official. We mostly do it in land use and budget
planning. It ought to be integrated into -- education
ought to be integrated into that.
This body would prepare and submit an
annual borough educational needs statement for inclusion
in the Mayor's budget, with the input from the school
leadership teams, through the local superintendents and
the local parent councils that sit on the Borough Board.
This body would make recommendations on enrollment
planning, zoning, facilities planning, school safety and
of course, the budget.
The Department of Education and the Mayor
would be required to respond in writing at the same level
of detail that the recommendations are made and I think
that we could statutorily make that happen so that it's -
- they're bound, just like we're bound in the budget
process and we're bound by the uniform land use review
procedure in the land use process, where there are
certain steps that absolutely have to happen, certain
official responses that have to come back from the
administration so we can build that into the details of
an legislation.
This body would oversee the organization
and training of parents throughout the borough and I
think that that's key. This body would bridge the
educational community with the surrounding community, and
that's where I'm talking about the stakeholder. The
labor community, the major industries, the major
institutions in every one of the boroughs should be
engaged fully in the discussion about the education of
our children. Because ultimately, those are the people
that will either become the assets to our economy and the
participants in those businesses, or they will be the
people who will be the burdens on society because they
were not prepared to engage in this democracy and to
engage in this economy.
This group would support the needs of the
school as part of the larger community, and that's what I
mean about the planning context and of course, it would
facilitate partnerships between employers, businesses,
schools and community organizations. So it sort of ties
things together.
I believe that we have a unique
opportunity right now to improve something that
originally started out correct, and over time -- I
believe over time it has failed in some cases miserably
and in some neighborhoods it has actually worked, School
Boards have worked. But I think for the most part,
across the city, we saw a very small percentage of the
adult population that was eligible to vote or just the
adult population with kids in the schools participating.
I think the number has come in around three percent.
In summary, I propose a simple strategy
for effective engagement: the creation of manageable
districts, and we know that smaller is better, manageable
districts; the organization of parents at the district
level, who represent themselves, represent individual
schools; and the creation of an instrument for planning
at the borough level for educators, planners, and
parents, all focused on making schools work for the
children in their borough.
If we can do this, we will have created a
powerful tool of accountability and transparency. We
will have ensured the organization of parents and we will
have accomplished meaningful participation -- the right
decisions, in the right hands; the right accountability
in the right place.
I submit this to you respectfully and hope
that you take it into serious consideration.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Mr. Borough President,
thank you very much for that very thoughtful and
obviously very well thought out presentation. You'll be
able to supply copies, I'm certain, to the Task Force so
we can --
BOROUGH PRESIDENT CARRION: If you don't
have them already -- you should have had them, but if you
don't have them already, you will have them very, very
shortly.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Great. And I suspect
there may be a few questions that the Panel Members have.
Let me just advise the members, we need to keep our
questions short and to the point and ask the witnesses to
keep their answers equally pretty focused, so that we can
not fall too far behind in the schedule today.
Jane?
MR. LEVIN: Thank you, Mr. Borough
President -- oh, I'm sorry.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: I'm sorry. I think I
recognized Jane and then Mr. Levin, excuse me.
MS. ARCE-BELLO: Thank you, Borough
President for your testimony and for your leadership on
numerous issues on behalf of children and families in the
borough of the Bronx.
BOROUGH PRESIDENT CARRION: Thank you.
MS. ARCE-BELLO: I have one question.
What does the relationship between the school leadership
and teams and any of the parts of the governing structure
that you've laid out?
BOROUGH PRESIDENT CARRION: Well the
school leadership teams would be obviously part of the
discussion about the priorities of any individual school.
That individual school is represented by a parent leader
who sits on that District Parent Council. You know, I
think that we can fine tune this structure to address
meaningful participation at any level. But the gist of
it, the essence is to ensure what was originally fought
for in decentralization, which was that parents have
meaningful involvement.
There's a sense that parents in the end
have not had the meaningful involvement. They've been
sort of guests at the school. They've been looked upon
as a nuisance. The -- and I will say this on the record,
and my friends at the United Federation of Teachers may
squawk about this. But there has been some pushing away
by administrators and teachers of parents and saying,
"Oh, God, there they come again."
And what we ought to be doing is pulling
this village together and that village includes
everybody, including the business community and the labor
community.
MS. ARCE-BELLO: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Okay, Mr. Levin.
MR. LEVIN: Drawing on your own rich
history, could you articulate the process for
establishing the structure that you've identified,
election versus appointment, how that might work and in
considering that, how do you keep the political process
out of something that should be substantive and
educational?
BOROUGH PRESIDENT CARRION: Well I think
procedurally, the parents get elected at the local school
level so that there is this organic sort of coming up of
leaders in that school community who would participate at
the borough level.
There is a self selection at the school
level, at the community level. There is an appointment
by the elected official that is charged with overseeing
the borough for the other members of that Task Force.
But there's also by default, representatives on that -- I
said Task Force, on that Borough Board that are there by
virtue of their position. So if you have the Borough
Superintendent for elementary schools, for middle schools
and for high schools, they are automatically there.
Then the question becomes one of who else
should be at the table. We have a health industry that
is huge here. So, we'd have one or two representatives,
maybe from the teaching university hospital, one from a
major public hospital. We have the food industry here.
There's 20 some odd thousand employees in that industry.
We probably ought to have somebody from that industry at
the table. Other major institutional players should be
at the table -- the labor community, the people who build
the city, they should be part of this conversation.
Because ultimately there are some kids who are going to
enter the work place as trades people. And that should
come into play in the conversation about education.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Mr. DeLeon.
MR. DE LEON: What role if any do you see
the UFT playing at any of these levels?
BOROUGH PRESIDENT CARRION: I think where
the UFT has the most meaningful participation is at the
school leadership team level, where you're setting
priorities about the school community, the school
culture, what happens in the school building. And as I'm
sitting here, I'm thinking that there should be -- when I
mentioned the labor community, there should be borough
UFT representative on that Borough Board.
This is something that is elastic at this
point and I'm looking for -- I'm really looking for input
into this concept that of a borough structure. I think
we have the major pieces. So I do see the UFT at those
two levels, the local -- very local school leadership
team and the borough level.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: I believe we've been
joined by Assemblyman Roger Green from Brooklyn.
Assemblyman Lavelle.
ASSEMBLYMAN LAVELLE: Good morning.
BOROUGH PRESIDENT CARRION: Good morning,
how are you?
ASSEMBLYMAN LAVELLE: Fine, it's good to
be here. This concept of the Borough Boards is a good
idea. You currently have Borough Boards, do you not?
BOROUGH PRESIDENT CARRION: We have the
Borough Board under the rubric of the Community Planning
Boards.
ASSEMBLYMAN LAVELLE: I guess my question
is somewhat like an appreciating question. How would the
representatives from like labor be selected? The only
ones that I see that are being elected are the parents.
And then how many parents would be on that? Like I mean,
was it going to be one parent or was there going to be an
additional number of parents. When we say labor, do we
mean other than UFT? Like would be take people from the
Central Labor Council?
BOROUGH PRESIDENT CARRION: Absolutely,
yeah. When I mention the trades, for instance,
construction trades --
ASSEMBLYMAN LAVELLE: And business, I mean
would we allow the Chamber of Commerce to select the
people or would that be just a political decision on the
part of the Borough President?
BOROUGH PRESIDENT CARRION: Well, you
know, I think that there should be -- there could be, I
should say, because we haven't figured out to that level
of detail. But there could be a special commission set
up by each Borough President in consultation with elected
officials in that county to select the different
stakeholder, and there could be a process. I think there
should be some measures of the level of engagement of any
industry in any borough.
So I mean in the Bronx, it could be health
care, because it's one in four workers that work in
health care. It's the place where most workers are
needed. In another borough, it could be something else.
I think that what we have here is a
concept based on something that I believe works well,
especially when we make important decisions like land use
decisions where you have to go through a public hearing
process and everybody has an opportunity to be involved
in that hearing process.
We have this Planning Board structure.
How many parents would be on the Borough Board? That
would be the exact number of parents that there are of
the number of districts. So in the case of the Bronx, we
have 12 Community Planning Districts. So there would be
one parent representative from each of those Planning
Districts.
ASSEMBLYMAN LAVELLE: That's an additional
question I had was on the Planning Districts themselves.
You said there were 59?
BOROUGH PRESIDENT CARRION: Fifty-nine in
the city.
ASSEMBLYMAN LAVELLE: Well has there ever
been thought on the part of the city to realign them so
that they're equal to the Council representation?
BOROUGH PRESIDENT CARRION: Every -- well
no. Every ten -- every census, we're supposed to take a
look at these municipal service districts and make sure
that they align with the organic nature of neighborhoods.
ASSEMBLYMAN LAVELLE: Does that mean that
the Council Districts do not?
BOROUGH PRESIDENT CARRION: And that they
have relatively the same population so that we can manage
service delivery in the city. We have not changed the
districts, the district lines for the last twenty some
odd, maybe even since they -- a little bit after they
were created. I think the first decade after they were
created we moved the lines a little tiny bit. I was a
District Manager of a Planning Board in '90 for five
years, until '95. I was liaison from the Department of
City Planning as an Urban Planner to that same Community
Planning District for three years before that. And I
believe a student, obviously of that district and that
district line -- that hadn't changed for 20 years before
I got there -- or just about. I think it was '74 when
they were created.
So, you know, it's something we're
supposed to examine. But in terms of municipal service
management, we think it works. So nobody's touching it.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Miss Kee.
MS. KEE: I find your structure and
insights very interesting because I guess from your
background as an urban planner, thank you very much. I
think the concept of having labor as a part of it is very
important. In our discussion with 1199 from the
Chinatown area, the Asian community, they are very
interested in day care, because they see that that is a
very important aspect of education, moving into
education.
Now my question is, do you see a role for
Council members? Because we find that when we deal with
the Planning Boards, in order to get our voices heard, we
also run to the Council member, our local Council member,
because they're close to us.
Do you see a role for Council members?
BOROUGH PRESIDENT CARRION: I think that
there is definitely a role for them. I was a member of
the City Council and I worked with the Borough President
to appoint members to the Community Board. Now I work
with the Council members in my borough. And that
engagement is a very real one. We literally sit down and
go through person by person, the merits of why that
person should be on the Board.
I think that --
BOROUGH PRESIDENT CARRION: I think that
probably the most meaningful indeed should go, is going
to be in the budget exercise and the planning exercise
with the members because now that we've given -- I say
all this very guardedly, but we've given control to the
Mayor. I'm guarded in that because I think that the
Mayors have always had control.
But anyway, now that we formally have
given more control I should say to the Mayor, that
engages the City Council much more meaningfully in the
discussion about education, in the budget priorities, and
in the negotiating out of the elements of the budget for
communities around the city.
And of course I work as do the other
Borough Presidents very closely with my delegation to try
to set priorities for the borough. Formally, I don't
know. We can entertain splicing that in. I haven't
thought about how to formally do that. I mean I think
maybe the way we appoint the Planning Board members,
maybe we should appoint -- or maybe we can appoint the
Borough Board members with the City Council reps.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Assemblywoman Pheffer.
ASSEMBLYWOMAN PHEFFER: Thank you. One of
our concerns about the Community School Board District is
that it is so uneven as far as representation and I'm not
sure and I haven't looked at but it would be something as
my colleague had said about looking at the Community
Board structure. I'm not sure if it's equally
distributed as far as representation of constituents.
But also, just talking about you said each
district would have a District Administrator. How are
you viewing that? I mean part of the complaint is that
the school districts all have a full force of employees
and now you're setting up 59 such little establishments.
So your Deputy Administrator, is he going
to have a staff? Is there going to be rent, you know all
the things now that the local school districts --
BOROUGH PRESIDENT CARRION: Yeah,
naturally there would be. But these are smaller
districts. Your -- I think the goal here is to make
smaller more manageable entities and that's been part of
the problem. We've just created ten small high schools
in the Bronx. The 400 student schools, some of them
started with 100 students, but ultimately the idea is to
keep them small, keep them manageable. We have one of
the largest school districts in the city in the Bronx,
School District 10, at one point peaked at 47,000
students and included neighborhoods that were very, very
diverse and both geographically, topographically in terms
of income and it made it very, very difficult for that
superintendent to manage the entire district. It's like
running a small city; 47,000 people, that's 47,000 of
them, and their parents and the teachers, and the
buildings, and the planning, and the budget.
Every one of the 32 School Districts now
has a Deputy Superintendent, that really runs the day to
day operations while the Superintendent, you know, if the
Superintendent's smart, does what they need to do, look
at the district with a more bird's eye, and allow them to
run the day to day operations.
So I don't know that we're creating more
layers or adding anything. What we're probably doing is
redistributing who we have in an already existing
structure. And we probably need to examine how much more
bureaucracy does this add. I don't think it adds more
bureaucracy. I think in fact what you do is you get more
of a borough level centralized planning. We already have
it with the high schools superintendents and it actually
works well for the high schools, because of that bird's
eye view, because of the balancing of interests around
the borough.
The Deputies are there. That's what they
do. Maybe some of the Superintendents -- here come my
friends at the CSA, but there's maybe some of the
Superintendents become District Administrators and not
Superintendents. And maybe it's time to cut some of the
fat at the top and have these managers at the district
level and then Educational Planners at the borough level.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Mr. Clayton.
MR. CLAYTON: How are you doing, Mr.
Carrion?
BOROUGH PRESIDENT CARRION: Hi, Mr.
Clayton.
MR. CLAYTON: All right, because there's
so many questions, I'd like to make our encounter here
brief if possible if you don't mind. As you know, on
June 10th it was signed into law by the Governor giving
the Mayoral control of the system and also we got five
parents appointed to this Education Panel.
Now they seem to be sitting there just
"window dressing;" no power, no clout, or anything, and
there's like a disconnect from the bottom up to them
sitting up there.
So now how do we explicitly get them into
your plan where we give them clout so that it is explicit
that they do represent from the bottom up, these school
leadership teams, these Borough Boards, these -- I mean
it just spirals up where now it's known that they are
sitting there and they have clout. And so although they
are numbered in vote or consensus on that panel, they
still will ineptly have clout and someone to be reckoned
with as a force of representing parents system wide.
So how do we fit them in?
BOROUGH PRESIDENT CARRION: Well, the
structure that I've set up, the line share of the
appointments are parents. They are the parent leaders
that have come up through the districts, through these
smaller districts. And in the case of the Bronx, there
would be 12 of them. And what -- here's the break out.
I saw a body of 21 members chaired by the Borough
President. You have the three supervising
Superintendents. You have 12 -- the this -- in the case
of the Bronx, 12 parent reps which are the parent
District Leaders. You have the appointed member to the
Panel on Educational Policy, which is those folks you
referred to. My appointee is here and she's going to
testify a little later. And then you have the Community
Stakeholder. And I imagine that there would be five
Community Stakeholder and that would be business, labor,
post secondary institutions, and now this interesting
twist of possibly having besides the labor community
that's outside of the education system, having a United
Federation of Teachers Rep for the borough sitting there.
But still if you look at it on balance,
you have a block of parents. But if they work together,
they can really push for the kids and balance the
interests.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Ms. Mullen?
MS. MULLEN: First congratulations on that
fine school at Lehman College for American Studies.
BOROUGH PRESIDENT CARRION: Oh, that's a
great school.
MS. MULLEN: I understand they've already
been to Boston. They've been to their first trip.
BOROUGH PRESIDENT CARRION: That's a great
concept there.
MS. MULLEN: Yeah.
BOROUGH PRESIDENT CARRION: Thank you.
MS. MULLEN: Just a question that I have
about the District Parent Councils. Would those be
elected at the May elections by members of public at
large, initially? And then when you have the 12 district
parent members who would sit on the Borough Board, would
those then be chosen by the individual District Parent
Councils or would there be some election process once
again?
How would they get there?
BOROUGH PRESIDENT CARRION: The first
layer would be elected at the local school community
level, which is -- you know, if it's P.S. 111, then the
P.S. 111 community selects their parent leader. That
parent leader represents that school at the District
Parent Council with all the Reps from each school and
those folks would select somebody who would be their
voice. That person would sit on the Borough Board.
MS. MULLEN: How about the industry
members? How would they get there?
BOROUGH PRESIDENT CARRION: That's up for
grabs. You know, I selfishly would like to have the
privilege, statutorily I would like to have the privilege
as the elected executive of the borough to do that,
because the people have entrusted the interests of the
entire borough on this office, and I know that's
debatable. We could be here for days talking about our
civic structure. But that is what it is and there is an
entrusting of that level of responsibility in the Borough
Presidency to balance interests and to work on planning
and budget and having a longer view than the immediate
local view of any one representative, with all due
respect to their importance.
MS. MULLEN: And then ultimately what
would the Borough Boards do on a daily basis? How would
they interact with the new set up?
BOROUGH PRESIDENT CARRION: They would
behave similarly to the Borough Boards that meet once a
month to do planning and development and budget
priorities and make decisions on land use. In this case,
it would be as I stated earlier, enrollment planning;
zoning -- they would decide the zoning issues; facilities
planning; safety, overall safety issues in the schools;
the budge, obviously the budget becomes a big, big piece
of -- and then formally, and hopefully by law, the Mayor
and the City Council would have to respond to that
Borough Board in a formal procedure that's set up.
So that -- for instance, right now I send
my budget priorities to the Mayor once he puts out an
executive plan and then the Administration has to
formally respond to us, and then we begin that formal
engagement. That same engagement could occur for
education planning and development.
MS. MULLEN: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Mr. Borough President,
we are very grateful for the generosity of your time this
morning and for your, obviously well considered proposal.
I suspect that we may want to have some discussions to
hone in some of your ideas, as we move forward. But for
now, we would all very much appreciate your being with us
this morning and for your testimony.
BOROUGH PRESIDENT CARRION: Thank you for
this opportunity. Have a great holiday, everybody.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Thank you. Before I
call the next witness, let me just make mention that for
the Task Force members who came in a little bit late,
that on -- in front of you, somewhere in the pile of
papers, you will find our December 15th preliminary
report. So if you didn't get it in the fax, it is in
front of you and you ought to just hold onto that.
And also let me just make mention that we
have been really fortunate that at each of our public
hearings, we have had the benefit of the testimony from
the Borough Presidents before us and we have always
allowed and allotted more time for the Borough Presidents
for obvious reasons.
From this point on out, however, I'm going
to have to keep pretty strictly to our five minute time
for testimony so that we can hear from all the people who
want to testify today. And again, for those of you who
came in late, if you have surpassed your five minute time
limit, I'm going to gently give you a little reminder
that you need to wrap up.
Our next witness is Regent from the
borough of the Bronx, Lorraine Cortez-Vazquez. Also
present, the Hispanic Federation.
MS. CORTES-VAZQUEZ: Good morning. Thank
you esteemed colleagues and Assembly Members. Thank you
for holding this hearing on the Bronx.
My name is Lorraine Cortes-Vazquez. I am
the President of the Hispanic Federation and as
Assemblyman Sanders said, I'm also the Bronx
Representative on the Board of Regents.
The Hispanic Federation is a network of 75
Latino not for profits, providing health and human
services through The City of New York, The State of New
York, New Jersey, and Connecticut. Primarily about 80
percent of the service providers that are members of the
Hispanic Federation are from The City of New York.
Hispanic Federation does a survey every
year of a thousand New Yorkers, Hispanic New Yorkers.
And we ask a battery of quality of life questions. And
one of the questions, and we spend a lot of questions on
education. Because education, when you look at for
Latinos, what are the primary concerns and the issues
that matter the most to them, three always are in
competition. Education always comes out first and then
there's the competition between jobs and crime, depending
what the crime level is at the moment. But education for
the last 11 years that we have done this survey, has
become the priority.
And yet we are very concerned in the
Latino community because there's this great disconnect
with this high value on education, and yet the
educational achievement of our students in the public
school system.
I'm just going to share with you a little
bit of the survey findings. Forty-seven percent of our
parents indicate that the schools are failing our
children. So there's a good reality testing in our
community.
One of the other issues that we have
always asked was -- we asked this year in particular
should the Mayor have control and there was an
overwhelming 52 percent felt that the Mayor should have
control. And yet we ask should Community Boards be
abolished, and there was a resounding no. We were
surprised that there were 58 percent that Community
Boards should not be abolished.
And we then went further and we asked why
and it was a matter of input. Because we then asked how
about your involvement in schools; are you satisfied with
the way the school system is integrating and involving
parents. And there was again, a resounding no. People
felt that they were not readily accepted in the school
system, and I don't think this is a situation that's
unique for Latinos in the school system.
So that I think the response to Community
School Boards was really a response to we want inclusion.
We want participation, and we want participation in a way
that makes sense where we can have an impact on the
educational achievement of our children.
We already know that we need a
collaborative approach in school systems. The school
system cannot go it alone. We need to provide
relationships and effective partnerships with community
based organizations, with social service providers, with
the health professions and with allied trades so that we
can then bring a richness back to our school system.
The Hispanic Federation supports the
notion of a community structure at the borough level. It
does not have to be the Community School Board as we know
it now. But it has to be a structure and we support very
much the structure that was presented previously by the
Borough President of the Bronx, which is a collaborative
partnership of a lot of stakeholder.
However, the Hispanic Federation also
feels because of our commitment and our response from
parents that because 47 percent of the students in the
public school system are Latino students, that 47 percent
of the parent participants throughout the city on any
Community Boards must be Latino parents. We also
further believe that it is not, and I was so happy to
hear Mr. Cloughton (phonetic) say about a diminished role
for parents. This is an equal voice, an equal
partnership. They are the highest stakeholder in the
educational system, because as we all know the primary
educator of any child is the parent.
And education is a process, both the
formal and the informal by which the moral character, as
well as the individual is created. And so by not
diminishing the role of the parent, we need to make sure
that we do not denigrate or give them a second tier
system.
So we want equal voice, equal vote and
fair participation given the number of children that are
represented in the school system. We cannot continue to
have this daunting drop out rate among the Latino
community. We, as a citizen's rate, we should not be
able to tolerate that the school system has failed
children, and this is not a new phenomenon. This has
been going on since 1976. But this is an opportunity for
us to recreate, be visionary, and to stop this epidemic
of drop outs among our students; so borough structure, an
appointed and elected process, equal representation given
the student population, equal vote, full participation.
We also think that this particular borough
structure should have some budgetary responsibilities.
Because one, having a policy responsibility is essential.
But without having some control or say over the budget,
your input on policy is somewhat diminished. So that we
believe that there has to be an increased role in terms
of the budgetary process. We even further believe that
we need to start changing the formula by which boroughs
and schools are funded in the City of New York. We
believe that it should be on a per capita or a per
enrollee basis by borough, with then a portion of the
formula being to fill gap and special needs.
But with the explosion of population in
some of the outer boroughs it is unfair that a line share
of this city's educational resources go to the boroughs
that do not have the most children.
I thank you and I am available for any
questions.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Thank you. That was
close to five minutes. That was pretty good.
Mr. Friedman.
MR. FRIEDMAN: Good morning. Thank you
very much for your testimony.
MS. CORTES-VAZQUEZ: Thank you.
MR. FRIEDMAN: This is a question I've had
for the -- I'm not sure there's an answer to it. But we
have a school system which is 87 percent non-white. You
tell me 47 percent Latino student population.
MS. CORTES-VAZQUEZ: Umm-humm.
MR. FRIEDMAN: If we're going to have
elections similar with what Borough President Carrion
spoke about, which are basically P.T.A. elections and
President's Councils, very similar to what we have now.
How do we ensure any particular percentage of
representation that were demographically balanced?
MS. CORTES-VAZQUEZ: I think that we have
to create an environment where we encourage and support
participation, support candidates. I think that there
are ways that we can do that. We definitely know how to
discourage candidates so that we can then be very clever
and know how to support and encourage candidates.
The other thing that we need to do is do
we need to change -- if we're going to have a process by
where -- that will be through an election, we need to
make that election at a time where people think of
voting. We need not to have these elections at times
that are contrary to people's voting patterns, and
traditionally and customary voting patterns, so that we
can have them during general elections or primary
elections so that we can guarantee a larger voice in that
participation.
And I think that if we did this in a fair
process, we would be able to have a parent participation
rate that reflects the student participation rate.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Miss Kee.
MS. KEE: Do you think that this election
process, I envision that it would be done directly within
the school, rather than through the Board of Elections.
Were you thinking that it had to be a Board of Elections
process?
MS. CORTES-VAZQUEZ: I don't think it has
to be a Board of Election process, but I think the timing
of it is key to people participating. And I want to just
say that I do see it a little different than parents
associations and P.T.A.'s because I don't think that
those have used parents effectively. I think those have
been very good for schools and principals and I have the
highest regard for principals and I have the greatest
regard for anyone who is in the teaching profession.
But I think those associations have been
really to serve those structures rather than to serve the
academic needs of students.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Assemblyman Rivera.
ASSEMBLYMAN RIVERA: Thank you for
stopping by, Lorraine.
MS. CORTES-VAZQUEZ: Thank you.
ASSEMBLYMAN RIVERA: A quick question. I
think the Borough President indicated that at election
time only three percent of individuals participate in a
school board election as we used to have in the City of
New York. Has the Federation ever looked at Hispanics,
per say and their participation in School Board elections
and what are some of the issues that they see in being
able to participate in School Board elections?
MS. CORTES-VAZQUEZ: I think one of the
greatest barriers to participation has been the timing.
I think that people are not traditionally thinking of
voting and it's still set up like an election through the
Board of Elections. I think there's a disconnect there.
Some elections in Latino communities have
been won with 26 votes. That is not fair representation
between the candidates. Some elections have been won
with less than 800 votes within a district for Community
School Board participants. So that is not representative
of a community, not even of a school community. Because
if you know the school communities in the Bronx, we have
many more than 800 students in a school.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Mr. Lavelle?
Assemblyman Lavelle, excuse me.
ASSEMBLYMAN LAVELLE: Schools have
scheduled nights where parents come in to meet with the
teachers. Do you have a feel for what the percentage of
that participation is among the parents? Because that
may be a night that you would like to conclude this
selection process, because you would be removing it from
the electoral process and it is a night or maybe a series
of nights.
MS. CORTES-VAZQUEZ: The one that -- one
of the campaigns that we engaged in last year was
encouraging people to participate in teacher/parent
conferences. But unfortunately, the participation is
rather low and it diminishes when you go from elementary
school to junior high school and it's almost non-existent
in high school. So that using that as a vehicle for
recruitment or solicitation or elections, might be -- if
you would tell me that we would do two years of
preparation of public awareness campaigns and education
campaigns to increase parental involvement in those
structures, then I would say that that would be a good
investment.
But we're not talking two years out.
We're talking about a system that we want in place
currently and I don't believe that those have been
effective ways for parents to have relationships with
teachers.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Miss Reddington?
MS. REDDINGTON: Thank you for your
testimony. One of the -- what you said before interested
me. You said that one of the School Board Members for
instance were elected with 26 votes. What do you -- you
know, how would you change that? In other words are
viable candidates not running, or do you feel people from
the Hispanic community are not running for the office for
specific reasons?
MS. CORTES-VAZQUEZ: I think there's a
myriad of reasons for it. I don't think it's -- I think
it's some of the School Board elections have been highly
politicized and extremely charged. I don't think it -- I
think it's a variety of reasons. But I think there's a
disengagement. One, primarily because of when the
elections are held, that that just exacerbates a very
politicized process.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Mr. DeLeon.
MR. DE LEON: Lorraine, thank you for
being here. I find your thoughts very compelling.
Focusing on voting, would you change it to a one man, one
vote or keep the -- what's been called a convoluted
voting parents -- the present system or the present
system that was does it electing of parents and School
Boards?
MS. CORTES-VAZQUEZ: I believe that
education is a public issue. And I believe that all of
us have a stake in education, and it should be a one man,
one vote process. That's how we say that all our other
representatives should be elected and we take those
representatives very seriously.
If we want to take these representatives
very seriously, we need to apply the same standards.
MR. DE LEON: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Well, we thank you very
much, Ms. Cortes-Vazquez for being here this morning. We
thank you so much for your years of service as President
of the Hispanic Federation and your recent years of
service on the New York State Board of Regents and
certainly your comments, observations and advice to us
this morning are very well appreciated.
MS. CORTES-VAZQUEZ: It's my honor to
serve and thank you for having me.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Thank you. I will once
again make mention of the fact that even though you do
not see her seated at this table, our Co-Chair, Terri
Thomson, who had some shoulder surgery yesterday is
listening into these proceedings. We have her hooked up
by telephone, so she is aware of all that is being said.
And again, I'm going to just remind all the witnesses to,
although I know you have much to say and we appreciate
that, to try to confine your remarks to about five
minutes.
Our next witness is no stranger to some of
the members here who are from the legislature, really no
stranger to anyone in the Bronx or the City of New York,
the council member from the Eleventh Council District,
Oliver Koppell.
ASSEMBLYMAN KOPPELL: Good morning, Mr.
Chairman, and good morning members of the Panel, several
of whom we spent many good years together in Albany and
I'm delighted that they're still there, because I know
they're very diligent about trying to do the best for
their constituents and for the city, and also thank all
the other members of the Panel who are doing this as
volunteers. It's taking a lot of time and I'm impressed
that you're all here.
Let me just pay a special thanks to Jerry
Levin because of the contribution that his family has
made to the Bronx and the tragedy that did not dissuade
him, but encouraged him to participate even more fully.
We appreciate your being here. Not to say that we don't
appreciate everyone else's participation.
Let me say, as you said Steve, I was in
the State Legislature for many years. For 23 years I
served as Attorney General of New York for one year and I
served and most importantly in this context as President
of Community School Board 10 for two and a half years.
And now I'm a member of the New York City Council. So I
think I have a good perspective on the issues that you
face.
I might say that one of your members, Rose
McKenna, was a member of School Board 10 as well and I
think she can help to explain the ups and downs of that
School Board.
Let me say that given my history,
especially my history as President of School Board 10, I
think that many of the aspects, if not all of the current
system of Community School Boards should be retained. I
couldn't disagree more with you, Mr. Chairman,
unfortunately on the issue that the Legislature has
mandated change. We sunset a lot of laws.
I know that you, Mr. Chairman, are a
strong supporter of continuation of the rent laws, even
though they go out of existence at the end of the new
session on July 1st. So that just the fact that the
Legislature sunsetted the current system doesn't mean
that the sun shouldn't rise again. And that's not to say
that you shouldn't look at it as a sunset; it is. And
you should question, should be revive this as it is?
Should we revive it with changes or should we not revive
it at all? That's what you're mandated for, and I agree
with that.
But I don't think you should put out of
your mind the idea of saying it should remain or largely
remain, because there are always changes probably that
are appropriate. I think it should largely remain, if
not remain entirely. Because fundamentally number one, I
believe in democracy and people voting and when you let
everybody vote, that's the best guarantee that you get,
Mr. Friedman, of having people who are elected from the
communities. And if you look at the composition of
School Boards generally, and I know people can say
District 10, white community, Riverdale community was
over represented, and maybe to some extent it was. But
if you look at the School Boards of the Bronx, which is
largely a minority borough, the members of the School
Board are almost entirely minority members. So in general
the electoral process has produced representation.
In the 1960's people went on the
barricades. We almost destroyed the whole city to get
community control and community representation. We
shouldn't go back and put ourselves back in a centralized
system without strong community control. That is very
important and I think it should be through an electoral
process.
Should the election be in May or in
November, I can argue both ways. Yes, May produces
smaller participation, no doubt about it. But November
will politicize the process, and people will align
themselves with a candidate for Governor, or Senator, or
Assemblyman, or whatever it may be, and that may not be a
good idea. Maybe you should put it in November, but not
in a Presidential year or Governatorial year. So you'd
have a little less of the active politics.
The fact that small numbers of people
participate is unfortunate. But those are the people who
are interested too. It's not so bad to have people
participate in an election who are really interested in
that election. And in District 10, as some of you may
know, where we had a hot issue when I was elected and we
had controversy, we had very high participation. We had
27 percent participation. Because we had a hot issue,
people were interested. They were concerned and they
came out and vote. They could vote. They could express
their opinion and they didn't like what our School Board
was doing and they replaced the leadership of our School
Board. I was the beneficiary of that.
But that's democracy, with a small "D".
It's a good thing. It worked in District 10, and School
Boards have worked not only in District 10, but many
other districts around the city. And where they haven't
worked, we've got to work to make them better.
We don't say abolish the City Council
because it does some foolish things. We don't say that
the Congress should go out of business, because a couple
of the people went to jail. We elect new Congress
people.
We don't say because a Presidential
Administration has failed, we should abolish the
Presidency. We elect a different President. So just the
fact that some of the School Boards haven't worked,
District 2 works great, or did work great in my opinion.
District 10 has worked. There have been up and downs,
but it's worked.
Also while I think it's very important for
parents to participate in School Boards and we should
encourage that participation, don't say non-parents
shouldn't participate. Some of the best people and I
include myself. I'm not going to be modest. I was a
former parent. I had three kids who went through public
school. But I think I contributed a lot to District 10
and I think there are people on the District 10 Board now
who contributed a lot who are not parents, and there are
people on the District 10 Board who contributed a lot who
are parents.
So I wouldn't say parents shouldn't be
part of the -- non-parents shouldn't be part of the
process.
I also think we should keep the district
small. One of the problems with the current districts,
they may be a little large. Especially District 10 is
large. But what do the districts do? What do those
local Community School Boards do and what should they do?
And I want to pay tribute to Steve Sanders who led the
reform that took away a lot of the patronage powers of
those Boards. That was a problem. But that's not a
problem anymore.
The newspapers talk about patronage.
They're talking about something that doesn't exist
anymore. What do they do? They look over the whole
district education plan, the comprehensive educational
plan, and the help formulate educational policy for the
district, which may be different. It may be different
than the South Bronx, than it is in the east side of
Manhattan. It may be different in Queens or Staten
Island. Let the local people have a role in preparing
the district philosophy and let there be some variation.
We can test different things that way. They review
operations on a local level.
Is a Borough Board or a Citywide Board
going to be able to know the problem of cleanliness in
the bathrooms in P.S. 7? No. If there's a problem with
cleanliness in the bathrooms in the school, which we
found in District 10, the local board will hear that, or
find that out. They have to review how the
Superintendent acts.
We spent a tremendous amount of time
evaluating the Superintendent and it was to her benefit.
It was to our benefit. It was to the kids benefit and it
was to the Chancellor's benefit that we analyzed the
Superintendent's performance.
We were a forum for parents to complain
to. Do you think the parents are going to come down to
the Tweed Court House; no. Do you think they're even
going to go to Borough Hall; not that much. But if you
have local School Board meetings in the local schools,
that's where the parents are going to come and complain.
And the local School Boards can help with zoning issues
and construction issues. They know the communities.
They can push for schools where they think schools should
be built. That's what we did in District 10 and that's a
very good thing.
So those functions that I just talked
about, preparing the educational plan, reviewing the
Superintendent, reviewing operations, being a focus for
complaints of parents and being a lobbying force for the
local districts, that's what the current School Boards
do. They're elected by the people so they do represent
at least the voters who vote, and that's all to the good.
Don't throw the baby out with the bath water. Don't
eliminate democracy from the system. Because ultimately
that's the system that we, as Americans, believe in.
Don't eliminate parents, but don't eliminate non-parents.
You'll get those other stakeholder in there.
And I think you'll find that it's a system
that can work. Does it need effort to help it work; yes.
But can it work; it can work. It has worked. And if we
eliminate effective local democratic input and leave it
all to a central administration as much as the Mayor's
amount of good will, we don't know who's going to be the
Mayor in the future. It's a mistake. And I will predict
this. If you do eliminate these local community based
elected boards, within a relatively short time the demand
for community control will once again be heard throughout
this city.
And the one last thing I want to say is,
we have locally elected School Boards all around the
State of New York, as Steven Sanders knows very well. I
don't have any less confidence and it would be a shame
if we say we have less confidence in the voters and
parents of the city of New York than we do in the voters
and parents all over the State of New York where they do
elect local School Boards. It's in a way an insult to
say that we can't have democracy on a grass roots level
in the City of New York, when we have democracy on a
grass roots level in Suffolk County and in Erie County
and in Ondoga County and in Essex County. We can have it
in the City of New York. We should have it in the City
of New York and we should maintain that, because
education is in fact different than other services. It's
not like Sanitation. It's not like Police. It's a
different kind of thing that parents and individuals in
the community should be directly involved in. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: We thank you very much,
Mr. Councilman. It still is a strange title for me to
refer to, as after so many years of working close with
you in Albany. I've simply been very proud of the
successes that you have achieved at so many different
levels of government and public efforts.
Do you have questions? Assemblyman Green
and then Mr. Levin.
ASSEMBLYMAN KOPPELL: Nice to see you,
Roger.
ASSEMBLYMAN GREEN: Good to see you also.
We haven't redrawn these school district lines in over 30
years. Do you think we need to, at the very least look
at how the line are at this point in time?
ASSEMBLYMAN KOPPELL: Absolutely, yes.
And I will say this. While I don't agree entirely with
the Borough President's concept, the one area that I
think is very interesting and that I think it might well
be a wise thing to do is to make the Community Boards and
the School Boards congruent. I think Audrey mentioned
would that work or would it also create all kinds of
different sized districts, and it's a good question. I
don't know the answer to it.
But with respect to your question, the
answer to the re-drawing is absolutely yes. We should
look at it. Very tough. You know the kind of conflict
it causes when you try and re-draw lines.
ASSEMBLYMAN GREEN: Yes.
ASSEMBLYMAN KOPPELL: But should we do it;
absolutely yes.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Mr. Levin.
MR. LEVIN: How would you summary how we
could correct for either the problems that have arisen
with the Community School Boards, but still retain the
past interest? What's the essence of that?
And then the second question, and the
Borough President referred to this, but how do you engage
the business community in education?
ASSEMBLYMAN KOPPELL: First of all, I
think we've gone a long way to correcting some of the
historical problems when we eliminated the power of
appointment of a lot of the administrators and only had
the appointment of the Superintendent.
One issue that I find very complex and
difficult is, what should the role of the Community
School Board be in terms of the selection of the
Superintendent. Because now we have under the current
structure, the one that's going out of business, that the
Superintendent picks almost the whole staff and has a
very important role. And in the legislation that the
Legislature passed, they now took away the power of the
local School Boards to have a role in picking the
Superintendent. I think that's a mistake.
At the same time, there were problems
where the Chancellor and the Board got into sort of a
stalemate in appointing a Superintendent.
So what I'd like you to consider is to
bring back, I mean assuming you would have some sort of
Community School Board again, which I hope you do, to
bring back some role of the Community School Board in the
appointment of the Superintendent, but try and avoid the
kind of a deadlock that we had. I don't exactly know how
to do that, but perhaps if the Community School Board and
the Chancellor are totally deadlocked that would be some
sort of arbitration process that would break the
deadlock, and it would be decided -- someone would
decide. You know, so we wouldn't have the situation
where we used to -- where we had in some districts --
this was not true in our district, but in some districts
you had the Board saying it should be Mr. X or Miss X and
the Chancellor saying I won't accept Miss X and the Board
saying well we're not going to give you any new names.
So then you had a stalemate. That should be eliminated.
But I could think of ways you could do that. I don't
think that would be a problem.
So I think that the Board should have a
role in the selection of the Superintendent, although
that the process has to be adjusted. That's one thing
that I would change from the past.
I would not give the Board back the
patronage powers they used to have. I don't think that
was a good thing. And I think what happened after they
lost the patronage powers, some of the bad kind of
politicians got sort of disinterested in that much time,
that they got disinterested. The people were only
interested because they felt they could get jobs that
way.
So I think what was not recognized by the
press and a lot of other people that the local Community
School Boards' process was changed because of problems
and we didn't really recognize it. I mean the papers
still talk about the patronage problems, largely
eliminated. At least certainly with District 10 they
were. I was terrified of making any recommendation. I
made no recommendations to the Superintendent whatsoever
with respect to personnel because I knew that I would be
criticized if it turned out that that became public
knowledge. And I think my colleagues on the School Board
was the same thing.
So I think largely I don't think there
were really major, major, major problems there. And I
will say this about the old Chancellor in the school
district and maybe some of you here who weren't part of
School Boards don't recognize this. Do you realize that
every School Board member had to attend training sessions
down at 110 Livingston Street, where we had to sit there
and be taught about how to run a meeting and how to
respond to parents' complaint, and how to deal with the
disciplinary process because we had a role, when a
teacher got disciplined, we had a role to review the
Superintendents. And we were trained and they were
pretty good at that.
So it wasn't that these Community School
Boards were allowed to be out there and run amuck. They
were closely monitored by the Central Board, which was a
good thing.
There was a fellow named Bert Katz, he
just -- Bert Sacks (phonetic). I keep calling him Katz.
Bert Sacks, and he was watching us all the time. And his
people were watching us all the time. And DeMartini
(phonetic) I remember -- Doreen DeMartini, I mean this
who concept that these School Boards were allowed to run
amuck and were dysfunctional. I mean there may have been
some that were, but there was a lot done to try and help
make them run smoothly.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Miss Wylde.
MR. LEVIN: If I can just follow up.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Mr. Levin
MR. LEVIN: The second question I had is
how can we engage the business community?
ASSEMBLYMAN KOPPELL: Well I think that
some of the things they do now, for instance, this
Principal for a Day Program, is a very fine program. I
think that it may be that the city government could
actually provide some sort of financial incentives. I
mean it could be that we could provide that businesses
that contribute a certain amount to the educational
system get some credit against their city taxes. And
that would provide an incentive for businesses to
participate.
I think that establishing an office, and I
think they've done this to some extent with the Principal
for a Day --
ASSEMBLYMAN KOPPELL: -- is a program in
the health sciences, where they link with some of the
health care institutions and that kind of thing could be
expanded. Because one of the problems that businesses
have in the city and you probably know this better than
I, is getting qualified people to work there. So if you
could tie it together with training people who could then
go to work for the business.
One of the things the Legislature did, you
I'm sure remember this, Steve, is we created -- and
Roger, the Transit High School, where the kids who went
to that high school were trained to careers in Transit.
And we have Aviation Trades High School for instance in
Queens where they could train for the aviation. Those
kind of things are things that can be done, I think.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Well, Mr. Councilman --
excuse me. Follow up Mr. Assemblyman.
ASSEMBLYMAN GREEN: Yes, just one last
question. Short of giving the School Boards more power
in terms of selecting Superintendents, is there something
that could be done with respect to -- and you talked
about earlier, the review of Superintendents and perhaps
even some powers that are related to accountability and
grievances where Superintendents have failed, so that
this -- do you understand what I'm saying?
ASSEMBLYMAN KOPPELL: No, I think that's
very important. I think that that is an important role
for the School Board to coordinate with the Chancellor in
the review of the Superintendent's performance. It is a
very important function. And as I said, I regretted to
some extent the Legislature taking away the power of the
School Boards with respect to Superintendents. Because
if you take that power away entirely, if you have no
power at all, then ultimately they can be a good
discussion society. But the Superintendent then doesn't
have to be answerable at all.
I thought we had with Irma Zadoi
(phonetic) who is a good Superintendent, but in some ways
didn't do some of the things that we felt should be done,
that the dynamic of the dialogue did move things in the
right direction without interfering too much with her
administrative power. It kind of worked.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Well, once again
Oliver, we thank you so much for your testimony.
ASSEMBLYMAN KOPPELL: Thank you for
listening, and I appreciate your attention.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Inside your three
decades of service, you're probably as shocked as I am
that a member who came up just about the same time you
did in Albany is now the Dean of the entire Legislature,
Richard Gottfried.
ASSEMBLYMAN KOPPELL: Right.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: So time moves on, but
you've certainly gotten better with age. We thank you so
much.
ASSEMBLYMAN KOPPELL: Thank you very much.
Thanks, Steve.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Before I call the next
witness, I.O., are you back? Can you come forward for a
moment. Let me just also make mention the fact that
occasionally we have to depart a little bit from our
order of witnesses for the most expeditious running of
the hearing. So if someone is called before your name
appears on the agenda, we will get to you very quickly.
Our next witness is the Representative for
the New York City Panel of Education Reform for the
Borough of the Bronx, Natalie Gomez-Velez.
MS. GOMEZ-VELEZ: Thank you, Co-Chairman
Sanders, Assemblyman Rivera, members of the Assembly and
the Task Force and I do -- I will be brief. I did want
to speak though as the Bronx Representative of the Panel
for Educational Policy which really is part of the first
phase of the change in the governance structure. And I
did want to share with you just very, very briefly some
of my observations in the four months or so that I've
served on the Panel for Educational Policy as the Bronx
rep and as essentially the parent rep, which the
legislation requires. And just to reach out, I don't
have a specific governance proposal to put before you,
but I do want to say a couple of things.
And one is, I think, in this four month
period that I've been serving on the Panel for
Educational Policy, I've had people come up to me with a
number of different impressions of what the Panel's
function is supposed to be, what it's purpose is, what my
role particularly as a borough rep and as a parent rep is
supposed to be with respect to the Panel for Educational
Policy. And I have to say, some people have said it's a
paper tiger; it's doesn't have any power; you're really
in the land of Mayoral control. The Panel is stacked,
basically seven Mayoral appointees versus the five
borough appointees.
I know that it was put together with the
best of intentions and all that being said -- on the
other hand, I do have people who also come up and say
they want me to move mountains for them as someone who
has the ear of the Chancellor, someone who has the ear of
the Department and there are circumstances I think where
that is definitely possible and doable, working within
the system.
What I think is very, very critical when
we talk about the rest of the piece of the change in
school governance, is that we insure that we put together
something that allows for two things that I see as sorely
lacking as I'm sitting on the Panel and one is
transparency and the other is connectivity.
You know, I'm one person. I'm a parent
and I'm a working parent and what I've been trying to do
as a representative of the Panel is not only attend the
Panel meetings and respond to the request from the
Department of Education for input on that level, but
really to go around the Bronx and reach out and talk to
parents around the Bronx. And that's not easy. There's
only so many hours in the day.
I think that we need it on the one hand.
And on the other hand, I think that one of the issues
with respect to transparency is there are things that
happen that we, on the Panel, and I know I'm not speaking
only for myself, find out very late in the day, if at
all. I think we would all benefit from having more
information and more input, and a mechanism for
transparency that will help to make sure that information
about what the policy decisions are that are being made
at the Department of Education level are shared with
people or shared in a timely and effective manner in a
way that enables input that is meaningful. We also need
connectivity. We need a structure.
What I observe is, you know, there are
parents out there who are working very, very hard on the
school level, in the intermediate levels, in the parent
superstructure. But I don't see a connectedness with
those parents and the work that they're doing and the
valuable information that they have to the structure
within the community, within the school community, within
the community -- I was listening to the Community Board
Structure, the thing that sort of puts those pieces
together. And I think that's very, very important, and I
think that however you structure it to make sure that
there is a mechanism for input from the ground up. But
that doesn't just stop there, or that doesn't go up a
channel that is separate from the input that is necessary
for purposes of policy development. And I think that you
need something on the ground, something that moves again
to the community level, that sorts of integrates those
interests with and includes other players on the
community level, and then brings it to the policy level
so that what gets brought ultimately up to that policy
level, and if it is to the Panel members or through some
other mechanism, is supported by a view that comes from
the ground up. Where you say, okay, these are the
priorities that each school sets out, but then when you
look at it at the community level, then you kind of can
set them a little bit better in context. And then when
you look at it at the bird's eye view level, you can set
it a little bit better in context. But do it in a way
that puts the two pieces together.
Right now it's so difficult, and I think
about it in terms of the -- you know, you have Community
School Boards, and there's all those meetings going on,
you have Community Board meeting and they're all going
on. It's got to be streamlined. It's got to be
connected and it's got to be designed in a way that's
going to allow for a -- and I will say this, you know, a
counter balance, a check that is effective both with
respect to the nuts and bolts on the ground level,
connects the nuts and bolts, day to day. Here's what's
happening today, and here's what's happening now, all the
way up through the okay, on a broader policy level, what
do we need to see happening.
And I ask that in this discussion about
governance really think about how that structure is going
to support getting information.
And I'll tell you the places and times
where I have been most effective have been because I have
had my ear to the ground with respect to what's going on,
locally within the schools, what parents have brought to
my attention and you're able to bring that to the Panel,
to the Chancellor, to the Mayor, to whomever. But you
know, in order for this piece or any piece not to be
window dressing or a paper tiger or whatever people are
calling it, I think it's very necessary that that
governance structure bring it up both and include both
the nuts and bolts and take it on up to the policy level.
And really, that's the substance of my remarks. I can
give in more extensive written remarks as well. But
that's basically the substance of my remarks and I
welcome any questions that you may have.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: We thank you very much.
Mr. Friedman.
MR. FRIEDMAN: Thank you very much for
your testimony. You highlight one of my biggest fears
and that is that currently we have by statute School
Boards which are supposedly the educational policy makers
at the district level and the Panel of Educational Policy
which are the policy makers at the citywide level. I'm
not sure exact what the role is. Just two questions.
Regarding that, one is is there any
interaction right now between those two statutory levels,
between the Community School Boards and the Panel of
Educational Policy?
My second question would be just as an
example last week the Mayor and the Chancellor came out
with a policy regarding principals and bonuses. Was that
something that was brought to the Panel and parents on
the Panel had input on it?
MS. GOMEZ-VELEZ: I'll answer your second
question first. No.
And to answer your first question, and I
don't know the degree to which this is the function of
the fact that we are in the -- we are at the time period
where we're at, where there is a change going on and the
functions of no one really knows what the functions of
the Panel for Educational Policy are yet and everybody
knows that the Community School Boards are sort of going
someplace, but who knows where.
To the extent that there has been
communication between Panel members and Community School
members, it depended on the effort and the outrage on
both sides, the Panel member and the Community School
Board member. And what I'm saying is we've got to put
something together that structurally makes those
relationships possible. And does it in a way that's
sufficiently streamlined so people, including the public
and everybody else don't have to go twelve places to get
that input and don't have to go twelve places to see how
the input that you get all the way on the ground gets
implemented up through the policy level.
So this notion of having the Community
Boards and the School Boards co-termines -- I mean one
way to think about it is wow that would be one sort of
place where you could talk about those issues. However
you structure it though, I think it is critically
important that to keep in mind the importance to put
together a structure that will enforce transparency. And
when I say transparency I mean information exchange that
is timely and that allows for meaningful input. And I'm
not talking about putting in impediments and slowing
things down. I mean I think people are reasonable about
this. And connectivity which is an opportunity to get
that information through.
I mean one of the other things that I have
been hearing is that Panel members -- people on the
ground don't know. I mean even after policy decisions
are made, we had an incredible struggle with respect to
the supplemental educational services on No Child Left
Behind. That's something that was implemented this year,
this fall. There was a November 15th deadline. We were
frantic trying to reach out to parents and say do you
know what you need to do in order to access these
services? If they're there, people should know about
them. We have to connect those dots so that parents have
an opportunity to understand. And I'm not saying just
parents. I think that the communities and those who are
interested have an opportunity to understand what's
available, what's out there, what's happening.
There is an opportunity also for some
input that's meaningful. And right now, you know -- and
I'm an optimist and I'm willing to give everybody the
benefit of the doubt. But, so in the beginning I would
say oh, you know, it's getting started and -- but, I'm
not getting a lot of information that I think ought to be
shared with Panel members, with the public before it's
done.
I have to tell you I was told just
yesterday for as an example that there's a major
announcement today in Staten Island education. I
couldn't tell you what it's about. I was invited to
attend. I won't be able to be there, because I've got to
run to go to work. But it's that kind of thing and you
know, with all due respect to everyone's efforts, if this
is going to be effective, there's got to be transparency
and there's got to be connectivity.
We've got to make a structure that makes
it effective for parents to be involved. And everybody's
talking a about parent involvement. You hear it from the
Mayor. You hear it from the Chancellor. You hear it
from the Feds, you have parent involvement, parent
involvement. It's got to be something -- we've got to
put a structure together that's going to make it
effective so that there is -- when parents put their
input in, there's a response and there's a supportive
structure and you know, there's an answer. Even if the
answer is no, that there's a give and take.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Assemblyman Green.
ASSEMBLYMAN GREEN: Given the fact that
the Panel Group is called a body, is supposed to be
primarily involved with policy, what has been the
opportunities that the parents have had who are on the
Board such as yourself, to recommend policies to the
Chancellor and how was that done?
MS. GOMEZ-VELEZ: Again, I think to the
extent that that is done, it is done based on the impetus
of the parents themselves. And the times that it is
effective, for example you know, we've pushed No Child
Left Behind on the supplements and they extended the
deadline. And it was one week and then into the
Thanksgiving week and I don't think that was enough. And
real issue was getting the information out there.
But you know, you do get some response.
The most effective response for example on the school
safety issue is again, when the rep or someone from the
community accesses the parent rep and they say this is an
issue and then we go and we take a closer look and we get
the attention of the appropriate person in the department
and they look at this particular issue and then it's a
broader policy issue, so there are examples of it. But
it is primarily again so far as far as I can see sort of
ad hoc on the impetus of the representative and the
people in the community who do come forth.
ASSEMBLYMAN GREEN: There's no statutory
synergy between the role of parents on the Central Board
and parents in the District; that's what you're saying?
MS. GOMEZ-VELEZ: I'm not saying --
there's nothing in place. In other words, I still have
and I know this, I have meetings that I have to have with
a number of parents, parent groups and parent
organizations. I have requested. I've met with some.
I'm planning to meet with more. But it's all on your own
impetus. I mean I could very well be a parent rep, to
sit there and go to the meetings and that's it. Do you
follow?
So what I'm saying is when we talk about
governance and when we talk about a structure, I mean
think about this piece that's here now and how to support
it in a way that will -- and I think this will strengthen
the whole system. I think that, you know, interestingly
enough, in those instances where we have been able to
bring particular issues to the Chancellor's attention
from the ground up, I think they're very helpful. And
you know, there is this children first community
engagement process going on where again, we have been
asked to sort of participate in it, et cetera. And the
question is to how real is it going to be going down the
road, that kind of a thing. But again, I think that it
is something that on the merits is very, very useful.
And so when you think about the governing
structure, I think it should be sort of putting together
and more formally the supports that will bring again the
two things, transparency and connectivity. And I think
the connectivity helps in creating where you have a
structure where you get enough support, starting from the
ground up, up to a more policy level to then counter
balance and really be heard on policy issues at that
level.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Thank you very much.
Any other questions? Well we thank you very much for
your involvement and for your participation on the New
Panel on Education Reform, and I think as you have
correctly pointed out, it is a work in progress and it
evidently needs more work.
MS. GOMEZ-VELEZ: And again, I'm always
optimistic. But it is so important again for those two
pieces to be put in. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: We heard you. Thank
you very much, thank you.
Our next witness is Dorothea Marcus who is
a member of Community School Board number 10.
MS. MARCUS: My greetings to everyone and
actually it was delight to defer to Natalie in the order
of speakers. She and I actually both have daughters at
P.S. 81 and I've been seeing her everywhere. I don't
know how she does it. But you know, I see her at
Parents' Council meetings and local P.A. meetings, and
the School Board meetings and she has given her e-mail
address. She set up a special e-mail address for stuff
about the Panel on Education Policy, which she gives out
at Parents Association meetings around the district. So
she's really making an effort to be accessible.
So anyway, my name is Dorothea Marcus, and
I am the sole parent of a third grader name Ruby in
District 10 here in the Bronx. And I've been active with
P.S. 81, her school since she's been a student there. I
have also been a member of the Community School Board for
District 10 since the spring when I was elected by the
board to fill a vacancy.
My day job is Director of Communications
and Marketing for the Institute of Student Achievement,
which is a non profit organizations which designs small
learning communities for high school kids, most at risk
of dropping out. And as been said by Oliver and some
other speakers, I just want to reinforce that unlike the
image that the media still seems insistent on portraying,
sort of deionizing School Boards, and even the New York
Times has been guilty of that I have to say, and some of
our public officials. Ours is not a school board
composed of hacks, political patronage folks or people
with personal agendas.
Four of us have children currently in the
public schools. Two of us have previously had children
in district schools. One of us has a pre-school child
destined for district schools. And one of us is a recent
graduate of district schools. So if you do the math,
fuzzy or otherwise, you'll note that eight out of nine
Community School Board 10 members have direct experience
with out schools. And the ninth member is a CUNY
professor at Lehman College, also in the District, who is
a nationally recognized mathematician who plays a key
role in teacher education for New York City.
Community School Board 10 has pass a
resolution which details our recommendations for a
continuation of elected school boards, with some
important modifications. One of these modification,
since this has come up earlier today, is to have
nonpartisan elections every two years in November to
coincide with the state elections for representatives in
Albany. So there would be greater voter turn out and no
additional cost to the City Board of Elections.
Our President of our School Board, Cordel
Schacter (phonetic), will be sharing the specifics of our
resolution with you this evening. But my purpose here
this morning is to focus directly on the benefits of
parental involvement in school governance.
It is obvious that there are some means
for parent to be involved in their own child's local
school. Unfortunately, to date, those efforts have
tended to focus more on fund raising, and was mentioned
about Children First. I know Chancellor Klein and his
staff, I heard Diana Lamb (phonetic) speak at a policy
breakfast last week. They're making it a priority to
encourage more parental involvement in instruction, such
as training parents how to support their children's
academic development. And the New York City Department
of Education's website I must say is already much more
parent-friendly than it used to be.
But, people have talked about school
leadership teams. I was a member of the school
leadership team before I was elected to the School Board,
and they have very limited participation by parents.
It's very hard for most parents to be able to
participate. At our school, it was day time meetings.
It was quite a commitment. And they were generally, I
think a lot of them were just rubber stamps for the
school principal or administration. I think it's hard
for them to really have an impact on what happens.
But I think there is much to be gained
from having an official channel for parental and
community input beyond the level of the local school. As
Oliver just said, I see the parents who come to our
meetings, and they want a forum to express themselves in
person directly to someone in some official capacity.
You know, it's very important to have that in a democracy
to have that kind of venting opportunity.
And the other thing is that parents are
not just parents. You know, people tend to think oh well
parents just only care about their own kid or something.
We're also citizens of the city, the state, and the
world. If I can be permitted some New York chauvinism, I
daresay New York City has some of the most talented,
accomplished parents around, and we have a lot to
contribute. You know, if you can make it here, you can
make it anywhere.
So, and we have the passion, the skills,
and the expertise. We are willing to put in long hours
for no pay to improve the school system. We are doctors,
architects, lawyers, public relations practitioners,
managers, artists, financial wizards. We are mothers and
fathers, grandparents, aunts and uncles. We are retired
teachers, and former students.
And we are important stakeholder whose
voices will be lost in a system governed only by a single
elected official, the Mayor. Why should residents of New
York City, I imagine the largest single school district
in the country, or it must be one of the top, why should
we be denied the right which is taken for granted
everywhere else; which is to elect a governing body which
has some direct accountability for the success of our
schools.
And as we've heard from Natalie and from
other speakers, you know the new Panel on Educational
Policy does not yet offer a viable form for input, much
less accountability.
We all know how vital a strong public
education system is for our society. Democracy can't
function without a literate populace, and our schools
can't thrive without the support of all our parents and
every aspect of the community. We must all see the
public schools as our responsibility, and our treasure.
I urge you not to abolish some form of
elected community governance of education in New York
City.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: All right, we thank you
very much, Ms. Marcus. Mr. Clayton.
MR. CLAYTON: Yes, thank you for your
testimony, Ms. Marcus. You stated that in the school
leadership team that you're on, that there was a low
parent participation. If there was a mechanism that
would allow parents who served on these teams to let's
say not be penalized by their employer because they had
to attend these meetings, do you think that the
participation would increase?
MS. MARCUS: Well when I say the
participation is low, I mean there's a required number of
parents on the team and we never have a problem coming up
with that number of parents. It's just that it seems to
be selected from a fairly limited pool. It usually tends
to be the leadership of the parents association and when
I was on it, there were parents who were available --
either women who weren't working or people who were self
employed, who tended to be able to be flexible to make
themselves available.
I think that also I think the very nature
of the way it's structured was UFT representatives and
with the principal and the assistant principal there.
That if you have a principal who has a certain amount of
authority in the school, we were able to have some input
into a homework policy. We actually are a school that
was not that big on homework. We passed a policy that no
homework on school vacations that's due the day after you
get back and this kind of thing.
But there wasn't that much in terms of
developing the comprehensive educational plan for the
school. You know, people tend to kind of leave that more
to the school administration and there wasn't really that
much room for the parents to have a meaningful voice.
MR. CLAYTON: Okay, thank you.
MS. MARCUS: Okay.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Assemblyman Rivera.
ASSEMBLYMAN RIVERA: Good morning, Ms.
Marcus.
MS. MARCUS: Yes, hi.
ASSEMBLYMAN RIVERA: In your opinion, what
is the difference between the School Board system that we
have right now and some of the suggestions that we have
heard which would also call for a board of some kind with
tweaking, maybe possibly another board, a central board,
the way parents are selected. So in other words, I think
what we've heard, at least for today, is a tweaking of
the system as it exists right now.
Am I correct in assuming that, or do we
have a different opinion of some of the stuff that we
have heard here today?
MS. MARCUS: Yeah. Well I'm speaking
personally now, rather than -- you know, I mean my School
Board has passed you know, resolution.
ASSEMBLYMAN RIVERA: No, I'm asking you
for your personal opinion.
MS. MARCUS: I was very intrigued by some
of Borough President Carrion's suggestions. I think the
idea of having some congruence between the Community
Boards and the School Governance is a good idea. I
actually -- before I was on the Community School Board, I
was the P.S. 81 representative sort of elected by the
Parents Association to go to the Community Planning Board
meetings to attend their -- you know, the Community
Boards do have an Education Committee.
But I found that there was very little
really of relevance down at those meetings. I mean they
were kind of more to -- if there was an issue about
safety, they would pass it along to the police department
or something. It wasn't a substantive role. And it did
not seem to be the primary function of the Community
School Board.
I'm not locked into any particular
configuration. I think that in New York City you can't,
as Oliver said, you just can't have this totally
centralized system. I think what I gather from as a
parent and an educator is that the trend right now with
the city is to give the principals more accountability
and more flexibility, which I think is fine. You know
and if principals are doing a good job, to give them a
little more flexibility how they do their job, rather
than tying their hands with all these regulations that
change every year.
And to give the principals more autonomy
and power and to maybe lessen the district level of as an
intermediate level of administration and governance and
to have kind of more of a central system, and my fear is
that then it will be assumed that parents can just be
active with just their local school. And I think as
we've heard here this morning, you know, parents are a
stakeholder, you know, probably the most important
stakeholder in the schools.
And there's also the issue you see if
parents don't feel that they're involved in a meaningful
way, you're going to lose a lot of the parents who have
the most to contribute. You know if they start seeing
the school system as something that they have totally no
voice in, then they're going to start sending their kids
to other schools. And you know a lot of people are very
concerned now with the federal No Child Left Behind, that
this issue now of transferring any child from a failing
school can transfer to a school that's not as a way of
back into the voucher system.
And you know, I'm just a very firm
believer in public education. I think we have to be very
careful that we don't undermine that here in New York
City.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Well we all want to
thank you very much for being with us here this morning
and for your important service on Community School Board
10. We very much appreciate your remarks and your
recommendations. Thank you.
Let me remind those people who are in the
room or can hear me, we do have a translator available
here in the room today. So if anybody does need
translation services in the back, Nancy just raise your
hand. We have Nancy's expertise and services available
and thank her.
And again, I'm going to just remind people
that Terri Thomson who is the Co-Chair of this Task Force
who had shoulder surgery just 24 hours ago, is listening
by phone. So she is getting the benefit of all of this
testimony as well, in between taking pain killers, I
assume.
Our next witness is Betsy Combier who is
President and Founder of e-Accountability.com and also of
the Parents Advocates Organization.
MS. COMBIER: Hi, good morning. I was
here on December 10th and I dropped off a document which
some of you may have read. I'm president of actually
four companies and I'm actually here today to speak as a
parent of four children, three of whom were at a private
school. I took them out of private school and I put them
all in public education because I bought the entire
schpiel of public education in this country, hook, line
and sinker.
I said this country is a democracy. We
are proud to be American, free education for everybody,
equal opportunity, and I'm very fortunate to have my own
money, so the schools that my children ended up in got
benefit of my money, my fund raising abilities. I put
myself behind every single word that I have ever said.
Then I got elected president of the PTA of
the school on the upper west side. And I studied the
regulations. I happen to have a new copy of the
Chancellor's Regulations that just came out. I'm also a
paralegal. I've studied the law. I actually have the
law on my computer just in case I forget one. And I, as
PTA President, took on every single child in this
building, more of whom were black and Hispanic.
And along the way, being a journalist and
a reporter, I had lived in Egypt, Israel, and Jordan for
five years. I've found out some information that was not
okay with what I understood to be part of the
regulations, law, whatever. And I indeed found out that
there were full inclusion children not on the roster of
the school and their parents got no benefits, nothing.
And I wrote a grievance against the principal and I was
immediately retaliated against by the School Board
setting up a special PTA meeting and a Review Committee
to investigate me for incompetency and they were mailing
out a letter describing me as incompetent to all the
parents in the school, asking for comments. And then the
Superintendent funded an e-mail address, and I could go
on and on.
But basically what I'm trying to say is to
cut it short, is I didn't go away. I was threatened. My
daughter was hurt. She was harassed and taunted. And
I'm not going away. I went the other direction.
I started reaching out to parents in the
school, in the district, in the city by way of e-mail. I
have a couple of Master's Degrees; one is in computer
technology. And I find that e-mail is a wonderful tool
to not only instantly reach out and say what's happened
to you? What do you know is going on in your school?
And to find out that citywide, the Regulations of the
Chancellor, the policies that are being sent to us from
superintendents and principals are not being applied
equally across the board. They are being selectively
complied with.
And in terms of the governance and I think
you have my documents there, when we speak about
accountability, this I may offer and suggest is very
important. But it's also without any qualifying words.
I mean people when they talk about accountability say, I
didn't say that. No you can't do that and I didn't do
that. Well, if you did it, that's what we can work with.
But let's try whatever form of governance you set up, not
to attack the messenger.
The other thing I would suggest is that we
need to establish transparency. There isn't any. And
I'll give you an example. A young child had a one to one
paralegal in an elementary school and the paralegal was
taken away from him because there was no money. So I
called District 75 and I foiled the Board of Ed in order
to get District 75's budget to find out what kind of
money would be available and I was told that I would
never get the information.
So I could go on and on, but basically I
have a document here on accountability, transparency,
very important. No matter what form of governance
replaces the school boards, I would offer that without
that, you're not going to be credible in anything that
you do. You are not going to bring parents in. They
know who is credible, who has stood at what they were
supposed to do and done it. We're e-mailing each other.
We're telephoning each other. We're getting the
information out horizontally very quickly, within five
minutes.
I also would offer that whatever
governance takes the place of Community Boards, that you
elect every member and that every member does have a
child in the public school system. There are wonderful
people who can do wonderful work alongside of somebody
who has a child. But we have to be stakeholder. If we
speak to people who are not stakeholder, and they're in a
position of doing something and they don't do it, then
the whole Board becomes not credible.
So the other thing that I gave all of you
today was that on the Internet yesterday, I found a
wonderful Best Practices that perhaps you could add into
your reading. It's a little bit lengthy, but I found the
Michigan Public Policy, I don't remember the name of it
exactly. But they have done a wonderful job in looking
at all of the elements that governance of school boards
should look at. And I included that and I copied,
several copies.
So, thank you. Any questions?
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Well we thank you.
We're indebted to you. I know that you have been not
only at today's hearing, but I know you were at -- I
think it was Manhattan's -- the first hearing we had.
And when you observed at the outset that you're not going
away, I know that. Because almost every meeting I go to,
almost any place in the City of New York, Betsy Combier
is there to offer her experience and her expertise and
observation.
So, we thank you for that again, here this
morning or this afternoon. Do we have any questions?
Well we do have thick documents that you
have provided to us. This will be part of our reading
and our consideration and undoubtedly, we will see you
again. And we're grateful for that. Thank you.
Our next witness is Herman Francis, who is
a member of Community School Board Number 7.
MR. FRANCIS: Good afternoon to the Panel
and to the audience. One thing I don't lack is being
precise and concise. Community input into public
education should not be limited to an advisory role of
appointed candidates. They have a tendency not to take a
proactive approach to situation and do not fully reflect
the best interests of the community. A board made up of
elected candidates would be more open to idea, devise in
their makeup and ambitious with their concern of the
quality of education in the community.
Community School Boards do work. There
are over five thousand school boards nationwide and
approximately seven hundred in New York State. In New
York City the conflict is over power; the control of
power. The community is to be put in the position before
decentralization, to be seen and not heard. This ia a
recipe for disaster, as the Central Board in control has
lacked ambition and clear vision. The electorial process
should be preserved with checks and balances. And
there's plenty evidence for that, as we can see over the
past number of years that various elected officials have
been indicted and convicted, and yet we have not changed
electorial process for various elected officials.
Also I wish the Bronx Rep on the State
Board of Regents that stayed with all due respect to your
19th Amendment, because people come to the United States
or North America for economics. Basically they want to
eat more regular and eat better due to politics of their
home land. If they aren't going to change the policitic
in their home land, what makes you feel they're going to
change the politics in the United States and North
America.
As in closing, I feel that we should give
clear thought to reserving the electorial process.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Well we thank you.
That was right to the point. And --
MR. FRANCIS: I'm open to questions if
anybody has anything to give to me.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: We have -- I think we
have your statement. We also have some back up material
that you have provided to us, Decade of Turmoil, as well
as a study that you provided to us which we appreciate,
as well as an article by John Fager (phonetic) who also
testified at these hearings.
Do we have any questions? Assembly Member
Green.
ASSEMBLYMAN GREEN: Yes, sir.
MR. FRANCIS: Good afternoon.
ASSEMBLYMAN GREEN: Good afternoon. I
think most folks would agree that there should be some
kind of checks and balances with respect to a more
centralized Central Board and then so the next question
is how might the Local Boards provide those checks and
balances?
MR. FRANCIS: Well we know for a fact that
most parents are not, how you say politically inclined
and not politically astute. But yet the electoral
process as I've learned is simply the best checks. If
you do not perform, you are voted out. If you mess up
any way down the line, you are out of there, period.
Also I feel a course should be set up if someone's not in
urban government. And as the Borough President, who I
disagree with some of his points, I believe a course
should be set up for those who wish to go into community
service; internship or what have you. Something should
be placed in that -- right there, so parents who do
provide the clientele for the school system would be more
politically astute.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Mr. Friedman?
MR. FRIEDMAN: Good afternoon, Mr.
Francis.
MR. FRANCIS: Good afternoon, sir.
MR. FRIEDMAN: Maybe you could tell me a
little bit about Community Board 7 and how Community
School Board 7 works; your relationship with the
Superintendent, your relationship with the parents, full
background.
MR. FRANCIS: Well as you well know, the C-
30 process have been eliminated, which is going to be a
disaster also, because you're talking about the
Chancellor forcing the Superintendent who the community
might not accept, which is going to cause more turmoil.
Also, School Board members are supposed to
be advocates, gate keepers for their community at
providing a quality education. But it's apparent to us
here that basically New York State has failed to define
what exactly is public education. I know that there's
appeals going on the funding into New York City and the
surrounding boroughs.
And basically the schools in the district
are doing their resources, because basically most of the
schools are run as prisons. You have students kept in
there, confined for six or seven hours a day. They don't
go nowhere. They do not have the interact. I've been
proposing all along that every Friday take the children
out as part of the classroom and structure the curriculum
so they will learn how to interact. I ran a midnight
program for basketball at Edan Wall Houses. I took some
youngsters there to a game at Long Island University.
They did not know how to conduct themselves on the subway
system. They thought it was a game. A couple of them
almost got hurt, horsing around and falling onto the
tracks.
But basically when I sit down -- we have a
Board meeting this afternoon and you can count the number
of parents who come out on one hand. It shows apathy
across the board.
As far as holding elections in November,
forget about it. What are you going to do? Hold an
election in November and put a new Board in in January,
in the middle of the term? That doesn't play it.
If the parents are real concerned about
their children, they will do their homework. Because the
best education is self education and come out.
I'm going to close with this, right here.
A number of years back a movie was made with Glen Ford,
Vick Morrow and a youthful looking city foyer called
"Black Boy Jungle," made back in the 50's. It depicted
life in a city high school in New York City. And yet as
more things changes, more things stayed the same. Why?
Teachers attempted rape; gangs and clicks running around
in the school system; chaos in the classroom; teachers
getting beat down. We're talking about the 50's here.
And here, we're in the year 2002.
MR. FRANCIS: And Central Board still have
control of the high schools. And yet those same high
school students are the parents of the youngsters we have
today in the elementary school. So what you're talking
about right here basically is going to certain. We need
everybody to take a fight.
The reason I got on the School Board for
one reason only. The behavior I see out there in that
street is a product of a failed educational system. I'm
talking about a content of character, which eat parents
as they go to the high school and half of them fail to
graduate, fail to instill in their offspring.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Mr. Clayton.
MR. CLAYTON: Mr. Francis thanks for your
testimony here today. How are you doing.
MR. FRANCIS: Good afternoon, sir.
MR. CLAYTON: When you say the chaos you
see out there in those streets, you literally mean those
streets. This is District 7, right?
MR. FRANCIS: Correct sir.
MR. CLAYTON: And District 7 is one of our
low performing districts. There's no secret. More than
half of the schools are on the SURR list I believe.
MR. FRANCIS: No, one third.
MR. CLAYTON: Okay, one third. Now as a
Community School Board member, the current governing body
of this district, this failure didn't just happen over
night. It's been going on for years, so you can't say
that the School Board has lost its power. When it did
have clout, this failure was still going on.
So now do you hold the Community School
Board members accountable, responsible for the academic
failure in this district, or do you point the finger at
Central?
MR. FRANCIS: There's enough weight for
everybody to share the blame. When decentralization came
in for community control, community input, parents have
to make the sacrifice. My parents did for me. My
father, may he rest in peace, they broke down and bought
a set of encyclopedias. You go to most parent's
household now, they don't have a book in the house, let
along an encyclopedia, a dictionary or a thesaurus.
I talked to parents -- most of the kids --
okay, hearing conversations without being cruel, profane,
or vulgar, and basically loud. They tend to project
themselves. And yet the parents want children. And what
the parents before and what they teach. They are chasing
some kind of force attitude which feels that education is
on a back burner, until they get in the real world and
realize that something's back there.
I feel basically that the resources need
to be pumped into the community, starting with the
concept of comprehending what life is all about. And to
come back to the same thing of constant character.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Well we all thank you
very much Mr. Francis for your very passionate and I
think very insightful statements to this Panel and we
certainly take into heart your recommendations. Thank
you, sir.
MR. FRANCIS: Thank you. Have a good
afternoon.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Thank you. Our next
witness is Mr. Albert V. Tuitt, Sr., Special Committee on
Internal Affairs for the NAACP. That's a very intriguing
title, Internal Affairs.
MR. TUITT: Very intriguing. Good
afternoon. First let me compliment all of you for being
here, because I've been to hearings where I've spoken to
a tape recorder, et cetera.
My name is Tuitt, T-u-i-t-t, not Tutt.
They just made a mistake, so it's Tuitt. Like go to it.
I'd just like to make a couple of comments
before I read the remarks that I have prepared for today.
And one of the things I understand you are going to come
up with some form of governance. In our School Board, we
had the instance, which I just want you to relate to
where the School Board took the Superintendent, and under
the spirit of law and the whole idea of the School Boards
being allowed to submit -- namely they would submit three
names, five names, et cetera, so that the Chancellor
could pick from them.
So they submitted one name and as a
reporter from a newspaper told me a few months early, he
said the fix was in. So they actually went around the
spirit of law, sent in one name to the Chancellor and the
Chancellor approved that one name. So a lot of us feel
that this was an inside job. So I think you ought to
look at that in terms of how you write the new laws.
The other thing a lot of the speakers who
spoke before me spoke about despite School Boards, a
school's working, I think that's one of the big problems
in New York City, when fifty percent, forty to sixty
percent of our children are below standard level, they're
not working and they haven't worked for a long time.
I don't have the power to change it, but I
think one of the problems is we still say, well it's
working. Our kids are doing all right. I'm not
satisfied with fifty percent, and I went through it with
my own children, and now with my grandchildren. But I'm
just not satisfied with fifty percent and I don't think
any of us should be satisfied.
The third thing I wanted to talk about,
one person said that School Boards are elected all over
the state and why should we be deprived of electing our
School Boards. The other problem is that we are
inequitably funded. School Boards all over the state are
funded, but New York City is funded differently and
that's something we're trying to address through the CFE,
but it's something we also have to pay attention to when
we talk about the importance of New York City and New
York State. That's one of the problems. We're just not
treated fairly.
Now I will relate to a prepared statement.
It says good morning, but it is afternoon. My friend and
colleague Roger Green and Peter Rivera I worked for an
Assemblyman a few years ago when I met both of these
gentlemen.
I'm Albert V. Tuitt, Sr., a lifetime
Bronxite, former president and presently treasurer of the
Williamsbridge Branch NAACP, Chair of the Special
Committee on Internal Affairs of the New York State
Conference of the NAACP Branches, a product of the New
York City Public Schools, a proud product of the New York
City Public Schools, father and grandfather of student
who have either attended or are attending public schools
in New York City.
For too many years I have been actively
involved with the public schools as the first male
president of a Parents Association in Community School
District 11, a candidate for the first Community School
Boards elected by the people, and an officer in parents
associations in public schools at every level. Among
many leadership roles in civic and community
organizations, I have also served as the first vice
president of Community Planning Board #12.
I say "for too many years" because our
students in public schools have gone through hell as the
New York State Legislature has "tinkered" with the
system, compromising at every point to try to please
everybody, without being successful in implementing a
governance system which would positively respond to their
needs and requirements. From appointed school boards, to
"community control," to elected school boards with
responsibility for hiring and firing, then to boards
without that responsibility, to June 30, 2003 when
community school boards as they are presently constituted
will be eliminated.
Parents must have a group outside of
government or the educational system to represent them
when decisions on local public education are made. I
believe strongly that we should organize youth, parents,
community, and business representatives around middle
schools.
It's just funny in the 30 years that I've
been involved, we've change the name of middle schools,
high school. One of the problems with this particular
plan which is not a new one, but I always felt that the
junior high school and the feeder schools were an
important ingredient, was that now many, some of the
schools are going from K to 8 or trying to go to K to 8.
Even now we have a couple of K to 12's, as communities
are trying to isolate themselves. But I think there's
still a preponderance of middle schools in our city.
Our present community districts are too
large and often are not homogeneous. The overly narrow
view of each local school where principals consider any
community involvement as intrusive, and "inside" parents
omnipotent, are also not desired governance units.
The NAACP has implemented a "Call To
Action In Education" plan that outlines our program on
improving the educational system nationally.
It's on our web site. So if anybody
wanted to get it, that's NAACP.org and you can pick up
the complete plan as is on there. That outlines -- I
believe that the Task Force has already received a copy
of this plan.
Additionally, the NAACP historically has
maintained a commitment to excellence in education for
all student throughout this nation, and particularly in
New York State we have developed an "Adopt a School
Program" which has been successful in some districts here
in New York City and across the state. Ironically, there
are non-believers who treat the idea of a partnership in
trying to solve a problem, as a hidden attempt to take
over the school.
We trust that whatever reform the task for
recommends, you recognize that we have already lost
generations of children through the inadequacy of the
governance programs which have been legislated in the
past 30 years, and we hope that your mediations would not
lose focus of the fact that our students future success
is dependent on the legislature's action. Respectfully
submitted.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Mr. Tuitt we are
indebted to you for being here this afternoon. We've
been very fortunate in the first two hearings we've held
in Manhattan and Queens to have had representatives of
the NAACP from different chapters around the city and the
testimony they have given has been very significant. And
you are correct, we have received the "Call To Action In
Education Plan" from the NAACP. We appreciate that. I
just want to briefly observe what I've observed with some
of your other brothers and sisters who have been at these
proceedings.
All of us on this Panel, on this Task
Force recognize the enormous contribution that the NACCP
has made for a half a century and more going back to
Brown v. Board of Education in 1954. Before and since
the NAACP has been one of the outstanding leadership
organizations, particularly in the field of education and
civil rights.
So it's particularly meaningful to all of
us to have the NAACP representatives out and in strong
force at these hearings and your testimony has been as
your other colleagues equal to the task and we appreciate
it.
Questions? Assembly Member Green.
ASSEMBLYMAN GREEN: Yes. Good to see you,
Mr. Tuitt, as usual. My question is I know you've had --
you've been active in the parent association, school
boards and then also you've served as Vice President of
the Community Planning Board #12. Is there something
given the critique and I think an honest critique of some
of the failings of some of the school boards,
particularly as it relates to problems with patronage,
you know things of that nature. Is there something that
we can learn from the Community Planning Boards as we
look at the reconfiguration of the School Boards?
MR. TUITT: Well I still attend Planning
Board meetings and School Board meetings, almost 90
percent of them every year. I have an advocation. I
publish a newspaper, so that's one of the reasons I go to
those meetings. But the Planning Board has constituted
our political organizations within. Actually people who
are on Planning Boards get knocked off because they
weren't favoring the ideas of the people who appoint
them.
In our particular Planning Board we have
three councilman whose service we've talked about having
59 Boards to be congruent with the Planning Boards. We
have three councilmen who have representation on our
Planning Board. So I think -- I don't really think
Planning Boards are that effective. But there is an
opportunity -- actually the staff of the Planning Boards
are effective, the people who work. You can go there for
problems. You know, and they take care of problems. The
Board themselves, I don't think are really that
effective. Because a lot of the power that they have is
a bigger power than them. So even if they vote one way,
it's goes down to State Planning Commission or whatever,
you know, and they knock it out.
ASSEMBLYMAN GREEN: The other question I
have is has the Winge Bridge Branch taken a position, or
has the State Conference, or the NAACP has taken a
position on the issue of the possibility that there could
be a recommendation to not allow for elected boards and
how that impacts on voting rights issues?
MR. TUITT: Not at all. We've taken a
position that basically we approve, not in this School
Board as in quotation, but that parents should be
involved in elected positions in deciding school policy.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Mr. Clayton.
MR. CLAYTON: Yes. Thank you very much,
Mr. Tuitt, for your testimony. Now you were saying that
Community Planning Boards are in your opinion are not
that effective. But they are made effective by the staff
they have, that carries out the day to day operations for
them.
So in the Task Force's charge in trying to
put together a recommendation that would be feasible for
the community, do you think having a staff person in that
mix to carry out their day to day duties would help?
MR. TUITT: I think this -- I was thinking
about it this morning as the Borough President talked
about probably trying to put together the Planning Board
and the School Board, because most Planning Boards have a
facility. In fact we have a lowly facility in District
#12 with rooms and offices and I think some of the staff
-- you know, we're talking about if you get rid of the 33
School Boards, where would you put them or how would you
replace them.
But there could be a possibility that we
could save some money by situating the staff in the
Planning Boards. But I still think that the
Superintendent of the District should still be in charge
of the staff. I think that's where you have to go.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Assemblyman Rivera,
then Miss Kee.
ASSEMBLYMAN RIVERA: Good afternoon, Al.
How are you?
MR. TUITT: Hi.
ASSEMBLYMAN RIVERA: Quick question, if
you were to pick one or two or three things that you
would take from the currently -- from the current powers,
from the way School Boards are currently constituted, and
transfer it to what we're trying to do, what would those
very, very few things, what would they be?
MR. TUITT: Well of course they're
mandated to have a public meeting and that's important.
There should be a place where the public can voice their
opinions, and that's number one.
I think they're in the C-30 selection
process, I think they should be involved in that, and in
picking a superintendent or at least recommending someone
to be -- just to be involved in the whole process of
selecting a principal. And I think the third thing was
to keep -- see unfortunately, I think a lot of the powers
of the School Boards have been stripped and which make
them -- a lot of the people don't even go to the meetings
anymore, because they're meaningless.
ASSEMBLYMAN RIVERA: But forgetting about
that for the time being.
MR. TUITT: Yeah, okay. What else would I
keep that they have the power? Not off the top of my
head, I don't remember. The fact that they have to have
a public meeting and they are involved in selecting the
superintendents.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Miss Kee?
MS. KEE: Mr. Tuitt, thank you so much for
your testimony and also the contribution of your
organization. I can see where we might be able to do
something about structure and how it should be organized.
But do you have any ideas about how to
change the psyche of -- my feeling is that education is
somehow an emotional, also an emotional reaction. When a
child enters the classroom, and I've heard it said that
by the third grade, some of our children feel that
they're non-learners, they cannot learn.
How do we get to change the whole psyche
that our education can succeed and our children can
learn. They have to be given the success experience in
feeling successful.
MR. TUITT: You guys have a tough job.
Structurally, I really don't know. My own position on it
and it's -- I feel that parents are one of the biggest
problems. I don't blame the Administration or the
Legislature for the problems that we have in education.
I think parents are biggest problem. And I mean, our
branch of the NAACP, we've mailed out 800 letters to --
you know, we've tried to help out a school, adopt a
school and we got 15 parents showed up. That's the
problem. That's like a big problem. How do we get
people involved in their children.
Right now I have a program that I'm
working with, with the churches in our community, trying
to have the churches get the youngsters who go to public
school organized by church. And it hasn't been
successful. We sent out a survey letter and we got like
-- we sent the survey out to 2,000 people and I think we
had 15 answers. And they say well parents didn't want to
put their names on it, so we said we'll take their names
off because they're afraid. I live in a community which
is highly immigrants, so they said they're afraid to put
their names on because they don't want their names out
there, you know. So we took the names off the survey.
Not necessarily anonymous, just sign what class -- not
even the name of the children, just what class they're
in, how many kids you have. We got about -- a very small
return.
So, my own idea is we take one school at a
time, put all the resources of the community into that
one school, whether it be the Planning Board, the
Community Activist Organizations, get that school
straightened out and we can do it. I mean we have
schools in our community -- I mean we have high and low
schools.
You know, one of the problems that I have
is that District #11 in the Bronx is the best district in
the Bronx. And it's -- but we're not satisfied with
that. You know, certainly not satisfied. But we go
around saying we're the best. So people say you're the
best, what do you need? But you know, the best at 50
percent is not acceptable.
So I just feel that the old Communist
thing, you draw circles, take one school at a time and
try to improve them. That was the old Communist
philosophy.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Mr. DeLeon.
MR. DE LEON: Mr. Tuitt, thank you for
coming. You're suggesting parent apathy. My question
is, do you feel in your opinion is that a result of them
feeling disenfranchised or not having any stakeholding
status at all?
MR. TUITT: I think parents and most
people don't come out unless they're threatened. If you
threaten them with something, that your kids are going to
be kicked out of school, they might come. I don't -- you
know, I think maybe it's the whole generation of the kids
sitting in front of the T.V. being babysat by the
television set has maybe some bearing on it. But whether
it's cold, warm, in the afternoon or the evening, doesn't
make any difference. But again, don't try to change the
whole system in that sense and you just got to go by --
I'm not talking about you. I'm talking about
individuals. You just got to go school by school.
Because I think on a one to one basis with
parents and I've done some mentoring in schools, it can
work. Parents will come out. But you can't approach the
idea on a whole district for argument sake, which is what
I've been trying to speak to our district when we keep
throwing out district plans. You know, take the worst
school in the district and let's try to improve it.
Let's throw the good teachers in there. Let's do the
security. Let's do the truancy thing and the phone calls
and all that stuff, and let's do the mentoring. And I
think we can succeed. And a couple of schools have
succeeded.
You know conversely, we had a junior high
school which excelled, had more kids, students who went
to specialized high schools from this one school that
they said too many, you know, all the other junior high
schools are complaining that your school gets all the
specialized school spots at our district.
In fact, the principal, he finally retired
because he felt that he couldn't go any further. That's
one of the problems.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Well Mr. Tuitt, again,
we are all indebted to you and to the NAACP for your
wisdom, your advice, your years of hard work on behalf of
all of the citizens of New York and the boarders beyond.
So we thank you so much for being here.
MR. TUITT: Thank you and have a happy
holiday.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Thank you. All right,
let me make an announcement at this point in time. We
have two witnesses who we are going to hear from before
we take a lunch recess, and those two witnesses are
Gladys Rosenblum and Robert Press. And at the conclusion
of those testimonies, we will take a relatively brief
lunch break.
All right, Gladys Rosenblum is the
Executive Director of the Loisaida, Inc.
MS. ROSENBLUM: I'm also a new public
member of CB-3 on the Youth Committee. So I just wanted
to add that.
Thank you very much for hearing my
statement this morning. As he said, I'm the Executive
Director of Loisaida, Inc. We're a community based
organization providing after school and youth development
to over 600 youth on the Lower East Side of Manhattan.
The majority of the families who we serve are Latino.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Excuse me. I think
we're having problems hearing you. The mic is on. Just
speak a little close to the mic.
MS. ROSENBLUM: Closer, okay. Loisaida
provides after school and youth development to over 600
youth on the Lower East side of Manhattan. The majority
of the families we serve are Latino. In our after school
programs more than 50 percent of the children live in
homes where English is a second language and 20 percent
live in the local Tier II Family Homeless Shelter.
Any family involvement must take into
consideration the enormous amount of immigrants that are
in our city. They care tremendously about their
children, especially about their education. In many
cases, the reason that have sacrificed and struggled to
come to the United States is to ensure their children's
future. They know that education will be the most
significant key to helping their children succeed. It is
vital that the system we set up now to replace the School
boards give all families with children in the school
system a meaningful chance to participate or at the very
least have their concerns represented.
In order for this to happen, several
things must be kept in mind. Whatever forum is created,
it must take into consideration that every district has
many languages that are spoken by the families. There
must be a vehicle to communicate with as many parents as
possible, even if they do not speak English, and in some
cases, they may not be literate in their own languages,
requiring us to make extra effort to reach out to them.
And I mean that we can't necessarily write to them in
their own languages. We must also remember that some
parents have not had positive experiences themselves with
the school system, or come from countries where authority
is not to be questioned or challenged. These are
families who require us to be sensitive to reach out to
them and ensure we are partners in helping all the
children of our great city to succeed.
And I just want to add, I think that
something really important that everybody doesn't
understand our system. Everybody doesn't come from a
system like ours. So that when we send a survey or do
something, they may not understand what that means.
Each community also has many programs,
groups, and non-profits that provide after school and
other important services that children and families need
to address the problems and issues that impact greatly on
a child's success in school. Together we form an
enormous strong partnership with the schools and families
to help our young people learn and fulfill their dreams.
Today, the Latino community has the
highest high school dropout rate in New York City. This
is one area that no one wants to be first in. It is a
problem that will require a road range of solutions and
services that the schools alone cannot provide. Our
parents want to see their children be at the tope and I
know the schools want all their students to succeed, so
it seems we are in agreement that there should be no
dropout rate at all. The solutions will require a broad
partnership with the schools, including families and
community based programs that are also working to address
the problems and issues that lead to school failure and
dropouts.
The schools currently have Leadership
Teams that include parent representation that are part of
the district Leadership Team. They currently look at
numerous issues related to schools. I recommend this
Task Force explore how this Team could be strengthened to
replace the School Board and not necessarily create
another new entity. The new Leadership Team must include
significant parent representation and also
representatives from a brad spectrum of service providers
that meet the wide variety of needs that impact learning
and school success. I strongly urge the Task Force to
include representation of parents and the after school
programs in the entity that replaces the old School
Board.
Ultimately, we must keep in mind what we
are trying to do. What is the role we want this new
entity to play? Over the last few months, the New York
City School chancellor has been holding numerous meetings
throughout New York City with a wide variety of people
asking for recommendations for the New York City school
system. These meetings included parents, students,
community-based organizations, and after school programs.
I urge this Task Force to access the
information the chancellor has gathered, as I know there
is a vast amount of information in that report that will
be helpful to planning a replacement for the New York
City School Board.
This is a great opportunity to look at the
information they have gathered, and together with the
information this Task Force has learned, plan a cohesive
system that works together to ensure all our children
learn, that all our children graduate and that all our
children leave the New York City school system well
prepared to become successful adults in our great city.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Well we thank you very
much. I particularly thank you for traveling from my --
our Assembly District in Manhattan to be here in the
Bronx today.
I just want to briefly comment on one of
your last points with respect to the Chancellor's
activities and our activities. We are in fact in touch
with the Chancellor and his office. We are trying to
coordinate to some extent their activities with our
activities and we are told that the Chancellor will
probably be making a presentation at our last hearing in
Brooklyn on January 16th to let us know what insight he
has gleaned from his various forums. So this is
something that -- your point was well taken and we are
trying not to work across purposes to the extent
possible.
MS. ROSENBLUM: Right. I just want to add
a couple of things. One is that the parents need support
to be a part of this. They'll need training. They will
need to understand the system and how, what the
importance of the role is. And the other thing is, maybe
there is points that children enter our system, when
parents are first putting their children in the system,
very, very excited and very hopeful. So maybe that's a
point where we could really give orientation to parents
and as part of those initial interviews, when they're
signing all the forms, we could really explain our system
to them and explain the power that they have.
So that's just one thing I want to urge.
And I want to say this one last thing. And this isn't to
what you just said, earlier question. When I was in high
school, by the time I was 15, I had lost both my parents
in three years. And I was making it through. I wasn't
an A student. I'm going to confess to you. But all my
friends got into the school college placement class. I
didn't get in. So I ran down to my grade advisor and I
said I didn't get in the class. And the woman without
missing a beat said, we didn't think you were college
material.
So when you ask that question, and I work
with children. I spent two years directing a homeless
shelter with families, when you want to know some things,
I'm not blaming all the problems on one thing. Some of
it is who we hire to inspire our children, to tell them
when they don't believe in themselves or maybe their
families don't believe in them, that we believe in them
and we'll find a way to help them succeed. Maybe the
won't all go to college. But there are opportunities out
there. This is America. We have a lot of opportunity
for a broad range of skills and abilities. We just have
to help those young people find that.
So we have to be really careful who we
hire. Because today, with my two Master's Degrees and
that second one, I'll be really honest to each one of
you. I got to prove that lady wrong. Okay? And I just
tell you that this is really important. Some people say
well it's the families, it's this. So what? So you're
born into a family. Maybe they're not sophisticated.
Maybe they don't understand. My grandfather couldn't
understand every time I kept saying I was getting another
degree. He worked in a factory in Brooklyn and came from
a village in Russia. He kept saying, "More school?"
You'd think he thought he had a granddaughter who was
never going to get a job. So there's a lot of things.
You can't point at one thing. That's all I'm going to
say.
I know you're all hungry so I want to end
now.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: We thank you for that
addendum. Mr. DeLeon.
MR. DE LEON: I just wanted to endorse the
fact that if you tell a child they are successful, they
will be successful and I point to my middle daughter, who
is in my opinion, I love the child, but she's average
intelligence. And she went to a gifted school because of
my political ability to make that happen for her and she
was told she was gifted. And she believed it. She is
now the President of her Sorority and God willing will
graduate in May and go onto graduate school.
So, yes. If you tell someone they'll be
successful, they will be successful. I'm getting
emotional, because that's how close that kind of thing is
to a parent.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Miss Kee.
MS. KEE: I can't agree with you more.
Because I've had similar experience and I know that
having been a classroom teacher in junior high school,
which is supposed to be a terrible age, for 34 years, I
really found that that experience was a very happy time
for me. When a child comes in to the room and a teacher
realizes that this child has been through the system,
he's been labeled as a trouble maker, and all the kids
around him say, here's the bad guy or bad girl, whatever
you say.
And the teacher looks at this child with a
great deal of caring and sort of puts a different light
on. Like oh, this is the child that's going to be
helpful and try to find a skill that this child could
have. And then you see the whole group in the class
change their attitude. And this, I think that having
served on a Task Force or police and community, there is
a way in which beginning teachers come into the system
that we give them the tools to understand how much their
attitude about children -- the very brilliant, gifted
children do not need us. But the child that has special
needs, this is where the teacher can show the best that
she has to offer and I think that we have to start with
our teachers and also patenting skills.
We used to have community family workers.
We used to send in family workers, but that has been
discontinued. We don't have family workers anymore.
MS. ROSENBLUM: Just as you said, we're
fortunate to get a really wonderful grant from the Robert
Hood Foundation. We are taking 60 fifth and sixth
graders from P.S. 188 and we're going to work with them
all the way through to college. We sent out letters and
we had an open house and we invited the parents, and we
got some of the parents. But needless to say, the last
ones are being done through home visits and they're just
as happy to have their child sign up, as the parents who
initially came in. Do I know exactly why they didn't
send the form back or do I know exactly -- I don't know.
Maybe they couldn't fill it out. Maybe they felt funny
when they heard it was an interview. I don't know.
But we're going to get them in there
anyway. It's just in a home visit -- we just have to
remember there's lots of different ways. It's not just
one thing.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Well we're not done
yet. Mr. Levin.
MR. LEVIN: First of all, congratulations
on your second Master's Degree. If I can ask, you make a
very interesting point. What this Task Force is about is
not only parental involvement, but community involvement.
And you point out that a number of organizations that
really try and work with students after school programs.
Do you think it's possible to create and
have a placement for Community School Boards that
understands that and institutionally can draw together
all the elements in a community where that hasn't been
done before, and I'm including we've heard testimony
about the role of the church, the role of business, the
role of the community based non-profit organizations. Do
you think we can institutionalize that?
MS. ROSENBLUM: I guess -- I'm also,
everybody laughs at me, I'm one person who always wakes
up and thinks today is going to be a better day. So, I'm
going to say yes, based upon I think it's who we put on
there. I think it's what resources you give them. I
think that was a really important point to say. You
know, is it going to be staffed. I mean I just know on
my day to day how overwhelmed I always am, and when you
go to these committees and different things and they're
not staffed, who actually is going to make something.
You know, all the little stuff that makes the mailings,
all those things that make something happen, and I think
that if people keep in mind, and I guess that where so
the checks and balance, why we're here and why we do what
we do. And that's our guiding light. That we want our
children to graduate. We want these things to happen.
You know, and always keep that in mind.
Maybe we can kind of stay away from kind of the things
that lead us into other things that are not helpful and
that don't produce good schools. I mean I think that's
really going to be key. And that's my guiding light
every day in what I do. Is, you know, what do I want
from my young people and that's what I can say.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Well I can attest to
the fact that Loisaida is one of the outstanding civic
organizations I think anywhere in the City of New York
and we're so grateful for you being here this afternoon
to share your views and your perspectives with us.
MS. ROSENBLUM: Thank you, so much.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Thank you very much.
MS. ROSENBLUM: Thank you for squeezing me
in before lunch too. I really appreciate it. My kids
after school party is today.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Okay. Before we take a
lunch recess, we have Mr. Robert Press, Parent Activist,
New York City parents.
MR. PRESS: Thank you, Assemblyman
Sanders. While I spoke last week at a Manhattan meeting,
things have happened since then that I need to address
this Panel on.
First I will speak on what Borough
President has said. I am basically everything that Bronx
Borough President Carrion wants in a parent, because I am
the District #10 Representative to the Chancellor's
Parent Advisory Council where I am also the Bronx
coordinator for the Council and I was elected by parents.
I am not politically connected to any one
other than the parents and the children in the public
school system. I now fully disagree with what Borough
President Carrion said about Borough Boards, and I would
not take the position of the Bronx Parent Member on the
Panel that Miss Valez-Gomez has.
First it wasn't offered to me, but I knew
that the Chancellor was going to have all the power with
no check and you heard that from Miss Velez-Gomez.
I'd like to go to the 20 page bill that
you passed amending the Education Law in relation to
reorganization of the New York City School Construction
Authority and the Board of Education and Community School
Boards because it is very interesting.
For example, on page #13, line 46, Section
#13, starts paragraph C of the subdivision 2 of Section
2590-1 of the Education Law as adopted by Chapter 720 of
the law of 1996 as amended to read as follows: C,
Principal shall be selected consistent with the required
regulations of the Chancellor establishing a process that
promotes and I will repeat promotes parental and staff
involvement in the recruitment, screening, interviewing
and recommendation of candidates.
Well, Chancellor Klein has put forth new
regulations, new C-30 regulations counter to that law.
He has made the Level I Screening Process which used to
be a process that included six to ten parents, and up to
four staff members, now to include only four to seven
parents and one staff member, and to say that these C-30
member must come from the School Leadership Team.
Now in my school, the first week of
December, the P.A. was asked to convene an old C-30
process committee of parents and ten parents volunteered
to be on that committee. More than half of them were not
on the School Leadership Team, including myself. It
appears School Leadership Teams were set up to limit and
reduce parental involvement.
By the way, this Task Force here is a
perfect example of an average District or School
Leadership Team. I am sorry if I am so honest or blunt,
but Assemblyman Sanders, as the principal of the school,
or the superintendent or as Education Committee Chair,
you are running this team. And whatever you will say or
come up with will be the final thing, as is with the
school, with the principal or with the district with the
superintendent.
Assemblyman Green, Lavelle, Rivera and
Assemblywoman Pheffer, are like the staff of a school or
a district because no matter what they may really think,
they will ultimately agree with you, Assemblyman Sanders.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: You don't know those
folks very well.
MR. PRESS: Because they like their
positions and they don't want to jeopardize them. The
rest of the Task Force Panel are like the parents on a
School Leadership Team. Most won't or haven't said a
word at all or probably think what am I really doing here
and what am I really supposed to do, as many parents on
School Leadership Teams feel.
I have to go back to the 20 page law and
I'll try and be quick. When I go to page #18, line #15,
Section 4 -- pardon me, line #49, Section 2, the Task
Force shall develop a proposal and make recommendations
regard the Community School Boards and their powers and
duties. Now does that mean that you can -- or I
interpret that to mean that that means that you can keep
School Boards in power as Assemblyman Koppell has said.
To continue with what Councilman Koppell has said, and
again, don't take this wrong, Assemblyman Sanders,
because I say just like the Assembly through Speakers
Silver, changed the law stating that the minimum number
of students in a school district was fifteen thousand.
He, through the Assembly, changed the law to say that
there shall be no minimum number of students in a school
district.
And the reason that he did that was so
that he could keep District 1 and you could keep District
2 which were way under fifteen thousand in your Assembly
Districts.
I'm just going to say a few more things,
that the decentralization law was set up to create an
unbiased District Board, free of Board of Education
interference. As Board of Education employees, we're
forbidden to run for local School Boards.
As you have heard from educational experts
these few days, there needs to be an unbiased,
nonpartisan body at the School District level with
accountability powers and not a rubber stamp.
By the way, I hope you do and if you
should perhaps find a way to keep School Boards in power,
please have the elections in 2003 and not put them off
another year as they were.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Thank you, Mr. Press.
I think before we break for lunch and before I ask if
there are any questions, I just think that the record
does need to reflect that the men and women who are a
part of this Task Force are all quite independent, quite
knowledgeable. This is a very collegial body and even if
I desire to have the kind of power that you ascribe to
me, I can assure you that I would not have it. We have
already had a number of meetings and we will have more
meetings and more hearings. And maybe this will be a
unique circumstance for a body created by the State
Legislature. But it is quite democratic, quite
independent. And the views that are ultimately adopted
and recommendations made on February 15th, I have
absolutely no doubt we'll represent a true consensus of
thought of this Task Force.
The time now is 1:20. There are still
several people on our witness list to testify before the
evening session; not too many. We may have some add ons.
So I think that we will break for lunch and please be
back by 2:30.
Let's be prompt and we will be back at
2:30 and I think we can expeditiously finish our -- the
portion of our day time session before we start the
evening session, 2:30.
(Off the record)
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Begin again. There are
a few people for this Task Force to hear from during the
afternoon session. We have actually a very, very full
evening session. Many people who are not able to testify
during the day, of course working men and women and
parents and just very busy other people, have taken the
opportunity to sign up for our evening session. So I
expect that therein will be the bulk of our work for
today will begin at 6:00.
Let me just make a few comments for the
several people who are here, who were not here in the
morning. My name is Steve Sanders. I am the Co-Chair of
this Task Force on Community School District Governance
Reform. The other Co-Chair is Terri Thomson, who had
shoulder surgery just 24 hours ago and she is auditing
these proceedings by phone from her bedside, showing real
true grit. And she will be hearing all of the testimony.
The members of this Task Force who are
here, most of whom are here, will reintroduce themselves
in just a moment. But let me just say, very, very
briefly, that it is the mandate of the Task Force given
to us by the State Legislature in a law that was passed
in June that did a lot of changes in the overall
governance of the New York City School Districts. Among
the provisions of that law was the abolition of the Local
Community School Boards as we know them.
And the anticipation that they would be
replace, not eliminating community representation, but
replacing it with some other kind of entity, some other
kind of structure that we all hope will provide at least
as great if not greater community and parental input.
To that end, the law required the creation
of this Task Force, 20 members, ten appointed by the
Speaker of the Assembly, ten appointed by the Senate
Majority Leader. We are required to hold at least five
hearings, one in every borough. We have held two thus
far, in Manhattan, one in Queens. Today we are in the
great county of the Bronx. On January the 6th we will be
on Staten Island. Our fifth and final hearing will be on
Thursday, January the 16th.
This Task Force is required by law to make
recommendations no later than February the 15th, 2003 to
the Legislature and the Governor with respect to our
proposals as to how we will replace the Local Community
School Boards as they go out of existence at the end of
the school year. Many of our views will undoubtedly be
informed and shaped to some extent by the public
testimony that we are receiving around the city. And I
know I speak for every member of this Task Force when I
say we are very grateful for already the dozens, and
dozens of individuals who have turned out and the many
dozens more who will still turn out later today and at
the last two succeeding hearings, public hearings.
So let me just ask those members who are
here, right now. I ought to just make mention that
because some of the members also have busy schedules and
other responsibilities during the course of the day so
members come in and some go out. But we have had always
a very representative turn out of the Task Force members
to hear all of the testimony.
So let me begin to my far left the
audience's right.
MS. MULLEN: Cassandra Mullen, Howard
Beach, Queens.
MS. ARCE-BELLO: Jane Arce-Bello from the
Bronx.
MS. MC KENNA: Rose McKenna from the
Bronx.
MR. FRIEDMAN: Jack Friedman, North East
Queens.
MR. LEVIN: Jerry Levin, retired CEO AOL-
Time Warner.
ASSEMBLYMAN LAVELLE: John Lavelle,
Assemblyperson from Staten Island.
MR. CLAYTON: Ernest Clayton, President of
United Parents Associations of New York City.
ASSEMBLYMAN RIVERA: Peter Rivera,
Assemblyman from the Bronx.
ASSEMBLYMAN GREEN: Roger Green,
Assemblyman from Brooklyn.
MS. BROWN: Robin Brown, Chancellor's
Parent Advisory Council.
MS. REDDINGTON: Bunny Reddington, Staten
Island. Currently serving as Vice Chair of Community
School Board 31.
MR. DE LEON: Robert DeLeon, Manhattan
Rep.
MS. HAHN: Yanghee Hahn from Flushing,
Queens, for Asian Immigrants Community.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Very good. I will also
make mention and repeat this during the course of the
afternoon and certainly this evening that we are lucky to
have a translator available here today. Nancy is in the
back. And if anybody needs English or Spanish
translation, she is available. And I'm going to do a
little tap dancing as we try to re-establish our
telephonic link up with Terri Thomson from her bed. You
all will have to tell her I said very nice things about
her. She didn't hear it evidently.
I should also, just for the edification of
the members just indicate that I have every expectation
at this point that we will complete the afternoon portion
of our proceedings by 4:00. But if you look at the
hearing schedule, the list of witnesses, you will notice
that we have a tremendously busy schedule this evening.
So that will require us to really try to begin at 6:00 on
the dot, and I think that will also require us to give
the maximum amount of time for the witnesses to testify.
It will require us to be very judicious with our own
questions.
One of the things that the people who have
observed these proceedings I think have noted a good
thing is that there's a lot of give and take between the
Panel members and the witnesses. We are not only
listening, but we are trying to engage in an active way
and try to really get to the heart of people's views and
draw out other opinions.
I think this evening we'll have to try to
in the interest of time, we'll have to try to limit our
questions so that we can complete this evening's
proceedings, not much later than 9:00.
Terri Thomson, can you hear us? We can.
Without saying everything I said a moment ago, I
mentioned that you are auditing these proceedings. That
you are the Co-Chair, that you had a little bit of
shoulder surgery yesterday and that I think the phrase I
used was you have really shown true grit to be by your
bedside and to listen to these proceedings. And it's a
testament to your interest and your commitment in all
that is happening here. And we so much appreciate it.
So, I will now begin. Our first witness
for this afternoon is Mimi Lieber, who is the Founder and
Chairperson of Literacy, Inc. And she also has served
for many years as a member of the New York State Board of
Regents and had a very distinguished career there.
MS. LIEBER: Thank you. Do you want me
here, Steve?
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Yes, please. As I've
said to all the witnesses, as I missed not having said
this a moment ago, we try to limit the testimony to about
five minutes. That enables us to have a little bit of
engagement and we know that you will abide by that
dictum.
MS. LIEBER: Absolutely. I will be as
quick as I can. I want to thank you all for what you're
doing. It's a very important piece of work and it needs
to be done by a very representative group of people who
would like to see New York City's children far better
off.
And that's the focus I'm coming to you
with. I do not have written testimony because I only
heard of this opportunity yesterday. However, somebody
will be at your Staten Island meeting with written
testimony and I will reappear, I'm sorry to say for you,
at your Brooklyn meeting. And at that time, this will
have been written down.
I'm a sociologist by training. And I
built a business in the field of marketing research as a
consultant to big businesses and I think I understand the
market and that's what I dream; is an understanding I
believe of the people out there who want their kids to be
educated.
As some of you know, after leaving the
Board of Regents where I put in fifteen years for my
sins, I started an organization on the ground, very
focused on neighborhoods, because neighborhoods is where
everything is and where everything happens and I'm
particularly focused on kids learning to read on time.
And it seemed to me that there are resources in every
community, which if organized intelligently could help
the schools make that happen, and indeed as some of you
know, Literacy, Inc. or LINK has done extremely well in
these five years and we've accomplished an enormous
amount in various neighborhoods in the city and other
people are asking us how this work is done.
And I tell you that just to give myself
some credentials in experience in the community.
I'm focused on two things for the work
that you're doing. One is really making parents able to
be empowered and involved, and the other is that this
entity, whatever it is you create, have some real
political clout. Those are the only two things I know
for sure. There are all kinds of other issues. But
those two things I believe very strongly.
As far as parents are concerned, it means
that they feel that they're part of the process in the
system. Our organization has proposed to the Department
of Education that there ought to be an orientation
program for parents of four and five year olds. Whoever
heard of an organization not welcoming their new
customers, particularly if they don't know anything about
your product and they don't know how to help make things
successful.
So coming from the notion that there
should be some kind of orientation, in order to bring
parents into the process, help them know that they have
in themselves about ninety percent of what we need to
strengthen and how they can help their kids, this is not
the subject that we're on today. But I believe that
there should be true parent involvement and we should be
sure that it's not just that little group who wants a
little bit of local power. But that we should create a
much broader capability by having more parents know how
the school is run, what's expected, know how the system
works and bring people into the school teams much
younger, starting off when their kids enter school and
begin to develop leadership and that's one of the things
our work does.
But I think if you do that, you probably
don't want the same parents over long periods of time.
And my recommendation is that a system of allowing lots
of different parents to be part of this group over time
so that parents begin to think that this is something I
may have to do some day, or be asked to do some day, a
much broader range of parents, not the ones who run for
office, the ones who are always running the PTA and
holding onto little bits of power that don't help the
kids at all.
So I would encourage you to begin to think
of a much more revolving system of parents and ways of --
and I've be very happy to talk about it more, but I've
only got five minutes and I want to talk about one other
thing, and that is political clout.
I have given this thought now for 20
years, ladies and gentlemen. We have to have the school
whatevers, co-terminus with something. The business of
mushing everything, moneying everything so that nobody's
responsible for everything has gone on in my view long
enough for these children. When the toilets don't work
in the school, there's nobody who is responsible. Nobody
who is political.
If you look at the Planning Boards, you've
got four school districts in every out Planning Board.
We have a Parks Committee on every Planning Board. We
have a Chamber of Commerce Committee on every Planning
Board. We have a Youth Committee. I sat on a Planning
Board for many years on every Planning Board. They can
be put together in business areas where there are no
children. But co-terminality gives us the beginning of
responsibility and it makes it possible for somebody to
be responsible for this group of children politically,
somebody's you know what is on the line.
Most political Planning Boards are
appointed by Borough Presidents. I'm not sure how it
should be done, that's better. But there's a lot of
political ambition on the Planning Boards. We have to
have some political ambition that makes sense around our
children. Somebody who cares that our kids are doing as
well as those kids. There isn't a town in this country
where there's nobody who knows our kids, how are they
doing as compared to those kids. That's the kind of
advocacy on the part of our kids that we haven't had.
There's nobody to get a whole group
together to be sure they all have uniforms. Our kids,
the kids in this neighborhood have to have uniforms for
their games, whatever games, ball games. They have to
have this. They have to have that. Let's push for our
kids. And I cry easily. We've carried out a situation
where nobody knows whose kids they are.
I beg you, not to let that go on. Somehow
involve parents better and create enough co-terminality
with something, and it can't be the individual election.
Because if it's an individual who is elected, as good as
the Assemblyman is, it's only one person who has
political clout. But if you do it with a group, where we
have some political responsibility, I think it will mean
something.
Thank you very much for your time.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Well we thank you very
much, Mimi Lieber. Again we remember, most of us do your
many years of hard work and the contributions you made as
a member of the Board of Regents. And it was meaningful
representation that you've provided.
Do we have questions? Yes, Ms. Brown.
MS. BROWN: I have a question. In terms
of when you say align to make co-terminus, would you say
that school district should be aligned with Planning
Boards? Should it be aligned with City Council? Should
it be aligned with Assembly District lines?
MS. LIEBER: I don't know. But the best
thing I can come up with is the Planning Boards because
they have all those committees and they have 52 members,
and they have therefore a lot of people who are involved
in the community. And to create the energy that we need
on behalf of our kids, it seems like the obvious co-
terminality to me. It's not an objective or moral issue.
It's a question what could work and even though there are
more of them than we may want, but in business areas,
they could be put together for this purpose where there
are no kids in schools. It just seems like with a Parks
Committee and a Youth Committee and a Chamber of Commerce
Committee and let's Beautify the Neighborhood Committee
that you have more to work with on behalf of children
than any other kind of group that I can think of.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Mr. Levin?
MR. LEVIN: Just drawing on your own
business experience, is there a way of really engaging
business in an educational platform, after all, most
business people are also parents. That would help the
institutional framework that we're trying to devise. It
may not provide the political clout that you're talking
about. But it may bring a lot of other resources.
MS. LIEBER: Mr. Levin, it does provide
the political clout and the resources that you're talking
about. In the neighborhood work we're doing with LINK,
we've got the McDonald's running a ninety-nine cent night
with books and it helps their business and they now see
these children are as delightful as they are. It's
bringing the parents in. We've got the local candy store
saying to children I won't sell you sweets in the
morning. It hops you up. Come back for them after. We
can involve the neighborhood Y. Their real estate values
go up. Their business goes up. It's ordinary advance
common sense that if we look at this community thing as a
community and understand how a little town works and
that's what we are, we're a system of little towns.
The Citizen's Committee of New York has
moved us into 400 odd neighborhoods, very useful. We
work with them. They've got eleven thousand Block
Associations. Think about eleven thousand Block
Associations, and how we can use what we already know
about this city on behalf of our children. We haven't
done that. We've kept the system with all this narrow,
the whole system of tunnel delivery of money and with
principals who don't live in their neighborhood, teachers
who don't live in their neighborhood, and they know it.
And yet you bring the community to every
one of these schools and they say of course, we knew we
had to do this. But we don't have the time. We have to
create a system that makes that happen, that really
creates for every child congruence between the relevant
adults in their life, and that's the candy store owner,
and the guy down the street, and the teacher and their
parents. So that they experience that all these people
expect the same thing of me. That's why kids succeed,
when everyone in their life, expects the same things.
We know how to do that, but we don't have
a system that makes that natural.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Yes, Mr. Levin.
MR. LEVIN: Just a follow up again,
because you have the marketing and advisory experience.
So is it possible to create an institution that's
government based, but pulls all these things together in
a more integrated basis? Are you optimistic about that?
MS. LIEBER: Absolutely, totally
optimistic about it. All you have to do is to understand
that everybody would like to work better together. But
if you set up the system whereby they are honored for not
working together, that they're all counting how many
hours they do this and paid on the basis of what is mine,
rather than what's ours, you can have a social Welfare
system where everybody's working on behalf of whole
families, or you can pay people for how many hours they
put in on grandpa. And we learned how stupid that is.
And that if you look at it as a whole family how much
more efficient you are. We've learned it. We just don't
bring what we learned from one category into the next
category.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Assemblyman Rivera.
ASSEMBLYMAN RIVERA: Good afternoon. You
talked about political empowerment, and I guess there
have been a lot of people who would debate that with you
about bringing politics into the equation. And I heard
what you said about it. We're not talking politics with
the big pea, but politics with the little pea, which is
create a system that engages a whole community, rather
than parts of communities.
But isn't that one of the issues that
we've had all along when it comes to the old School
Boards? A lot of people saw that as too politically
involved, too politically connected to be able to
function and that was one of the big drawbacks of the
"old political system" or at least of the old School
Board system.
MS. LIEBER: No, what was wrong with the
old School Boards, many things were wrong with them. But
one is they had a lot of pork to pass out. And when you
give people money to pass out and they are important in
their neighborhood because of what they can dish out to
people, you'll get corrupted. It doesn't work.
But politics are what we do in our
families every day. We negotiate for things. And if
we're strong and we are negotiating on behalf of
something important like our children, we have a strong
voice. Politics -- I come from a political family. I
love politics. Not politics in the negative sense. But
the reality that we are all advocating for something and
we believe in something and we live in a democracy. And
I want to get some energy on behalf of kids. This kind
of energy on behalf of children. They have it in
Scarsdale. We just don't have it for our children.
We've acted as though they're not worth it.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Assemblyman Green.
ASSEMBLYMAN GREEN: Question, on the
question of politics can be played out in context of
appointed boards or elected boards, do you have a
position with respect to that?
MS. LIEBER: I've thought about it a lot
and I'd like to talk to you about it. I don't know what
the right way to do this is. The answer is I don't know.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Can I follow up? Just
add little context to Assemblyman Green's question. In
your experience as a member of the Board of Regents, of
course you had interaction kind of a global scale with a
lot of school districts, there were 700 in New York
State. The so called "dependent" school districts which
comprises nearly half of the students around the state,
dependent school districts, New York City, Yonkers,
Buffalo, Syracuse and Rochester, largely have appointed
Boards in some permutation, sometimes with some elections
part of it, but it's mostly appointed.
My question in following up Mr. Green's
inquiry, is did you discern any difference in the quality
of representation or the appropriateness of
representation with the dependent school districts that
were largely appointed as opposed to the elected School
Board which comprises almost all the other districts?
MS. LIEBER: You know it has to much to do
with the size of a community and what's involved. And
appointment, whether it's a Judge or a School Board
person has to do with who's doing the appointing. What
is the process of appointment? What does a person have
to qualify for to be appointed, is part of what's the
appointment process which is why there are Judicial
Review Boards and what have you, and if you do it one way
-- and so I just think it's a very interesting and
important issue and I don't know, to answer your
question, Steve. I'm very sorry, I didn't answer
immediately, no. I didn't -- I can't say that one way is
better. Really you find a community where it's just
amazing. There's a tradition of the finest people
running for the School Board and it becomes a very
honorable post in that community and people look up to
it. And then there are places where it's not as
honorable, and it's considered a goody that you get and
makes you important. And it's just I haven't found that
it's as simple as that.
ASSEMBLYMAN GREEN: The Regents are
elected by the Assembly. And I think there's no question
the Regents, like yourself, were and are considered an
honored position and a valued position. Does it make
sense for instance, it might have made sense to give
someone who has some political accountability or who is
held politically accountable, say the City Council or you
name it, or maybe a combination of City Council with
Assembly people, State Senators who are responsible --
MS. LIEBER: I don't have the answer,
Roger. You know --
MS. LIEBER: -- we went through a period
where there were Regents elected because they had lost
the last election, that was their job. And they didn't
last long. They were an embarrassment. I went today,
the quality of the Regents are infinitely higher. Who
knows, I think they're very much more intentional about
being sure that every single member of the Board of
Regents is someone who knows a little bit about the
subject.
Nothing would honor me more than to sit
with some of you and try to think through some of the
complexities. I think what you're doing is great. But I
see all the sides, the complexity of the issues you're
addressing, and so I don't have a quick answer for you.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Well Mimi Lieber, we
can't thank you enough for having been here today, even
though on short notice and again we want to recognize and
honor the public service you've provided on behalf of
three million school children in New York State.
MS. LIEBER: It's a pleasure to be here.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Thank you. Is Arlene
Trehene here yet? No, okay. Our next witness is Connie
Black who is Chair of the Education Committee for the
NAACP. As Miss Blake makes her way to the front, I make
mention the fact that we have had the opportunity and
really the honor to have heard already from three
representatives of the NAACP from various chapters around
the city and we so much appreciate the NAACP's strong
interest in these proceedings and its history of
effective and passionate representation on behalf of
education and civil rights for more years than many of us
have been alive. We thank you for being here.
MS. BLAKE: I too was not given much
notice. Good afternoon, everyone. My name is Connie
Blake. I am a lifetime Bronxite. I graduated from
Walter High School, Lehman College and I earned my MS in
education from Fordham University. I served as a First
Vice President of the North Bronx Section of the National
Council of Negro Women which was founded by Mary McCloud
Bethune.
She is known as one of the most
influential women in the world. She started a school for
the children of railroad workers in Florida. She had
$1.50 and a garbage dump. Today the school is Bethune
Cookman College. She is my favorite African-American,
and I live very much based on her principles.
As a mother of a daughter who was educated
in our public school system, I know how crucial it is for
the community and parents to participate in the Community
School District Governance Structure. I am a retired New
York City school teacher who substitutes daily. So I am
very much aware of the pulse of what is happening today.
I have served as Education Chair for the
NAACP and the National Council of Negro Women. The NAACP
Branch is the Williams Bridge Branch and the NCNW stands
for National Council of Negro Women.
Our children are in serious trouble due to
the various factors. Most of our schools are far below
the New York City and New York State standards in reading
and math. And if I remember correctly, there are three
hundred and something schools that are on the list. And
of those three hundred and something schools, New York
City has maybe -- outside of New York City maybe there
are eleven schools. So it's like three hundred and
whatever the number is. And all of those schools with
the exception of eleven are from New York City, which
really concerns me.
The rate of our high school drop outs is
just overwhelming. The problems that we have, Evander
Childs on the radio. I have a nephew who attends Evander
Childs and I'm really quite concerned about it, even
though they have those three mini schools. You still
have all those children housed in those schools. And
every other day there's something happening.
Taft High School there are a lot of
problems and I don't remember the third school. But
anyway, we have to look at these things. We have to
create a system where each parent is encouraged to take
an active part in their children's education.
I remember one year I was a high school
teacher and a middle school teacher. And one year in
particular that I remember, although what I remember was
very much the norm, which is really very sad. I had like
a hundred and fifty students. And open school night, I
saw thirteen parents. So the parents need to know, the
parents have to be educated. The parents have to be
involved. And as the person who just spoke previously to
me, it's my speaking, she did make an excellent point.
And I know that there are a small number of parents who
are interested. They do all the things that they have to
do for their children and make sure that their children
get.
I want to say at this point that I know
the public school system can work if we educate our
parents and it's not only the various community
organizations like the National Council of Negro Women
and the NAACP, but I also feel personally that churches
need to get involved. Maybe because I'm a minister's
wife and my husband who is sitting in the back is a
minister. But I just feel that we, as a people, we have
to take on the responsibility for our children. And I
feel so strongly about it I'm going to be starting a
learning center on Saturdays from my church and then
we're going to also be very seriously considering
starting a Christian School as well.
Because we could attend all these hearings
and just keep talking and talking and writing and
writing, and talking, and in the meantime, the clock is
ticking and we're losing these children. They're in the
streets whether you now it or not. If you're on the
train station or on a train in the middle of the day,
you're going to see our children; or you're going to
see them outside of the school; or you're going to see
them in the hallways.
So you know these hearings are great and
wonderful, but as I said, the children are lost. I can
tell you they're lost because I'm in the school. I'm not
talking about when I was there, I'm still subbing every
day. Our children and when I say our children, they're
all our children. But the children who are lost are
mainly the Latino children and the children of African
descent. And those children are expect to be
contributing members of society just like anybody else.
Because we can't afford to take care of them.
And they're in the prisons and more money
is being spent on them being in prison. And then you
tell them that we can't even give them a scholarship to
go to school. But we can pay all that money for them to
be in a prison. Something is really wrong.
We are contributing members of our
society. But, here is a question. Will our children
become contributing members of society so that they will
be able to run our country when they become adults. It's
going back to the question, you say a mother has 20
children. Well of course that's a little ridiculous.
But a mother have five children and she takes care of
those five children. And then when she becomes elderly
and unable to take care of herself, they say a mother can
take care of five children, but can five children take
care of a mother?
We're taking care of these children now
with our tax dollars. And when the time comes for them
to take care of us, will they be able to take care of us?
We better think about it. You may think that you're far
removed from it. Some of us think that we're far
removed, but we're not. We are not far removed. We had
better figure out a way to do something and we had better
figure it out quickly, because all these conferences and
all these hearings and all these meetings and all these
minutes and all these reports, what's the bottom line?
The bottom line is our children are lost.
I don't know if any of you -- I'd like to ask you a
question. How many of your children have gone through
the public school system? I'd like to ask you. You
don't have to answer, rhetorical. How many of your
children are in private school? You know, because I find
it very interesting that it's like a pass time for some
people or maybe they feel guilty as so they show oh, let
me show a little interest in the peons. You know, so
I'll join this Board and I'll join that Board.
But if your children are in the system,
then you know you have to do something. My children went
through the system. My daughter went through the system
and she holds a Master's from Harvard. I did not send
her ever to a private school or a Christian school. I
know it can work if people know the value. I know the
value of education because my mother taught me the value
of education. Because I'm an African-American woman and
I know that there's no other way for us to get any kind
of equity. We're never going to get full equity,
unfortunately because we live in a racist society.
But the closest thing we can get will be
given to us through our education and that has to be
taught. But there are parents who have failed and they
don't see education as the way out. So it's very hard to
tell a parent send your child to school when that parent
can't even get a job. Or if the parent does get a job,
it's minimum wage. So there are so many factors that we
have to look at. But we have to save these children.
We were writing letters to Santa Claus the
other day. And this child wrote to Santa Claus, please
get my mother and father back together. Children are
sitting in classrooms with all kinds of problems that you
and I never had. Parents who need to be parented
themselves.
So we have to do something. I don't know
the answers. I'm not going to sit here telling you I
know the answers. I don't know the answers. I know the
problem. I don't know the answers.
So, I thank you for your time.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Well, we certainly
thank you very much for your very articulate and
passionate presentation about the needs and the problems
of our children. I just want to assure you, you weren't
here earlier when we made some opening remarks and talked
about the mission and purpose of these hearings, which is
to try to ensure that there is adequate and even better
than what we have had community representation as the
local Community School Boards phase out of existence on
June 30th. I just want you to know that this Task Force
doesn't consider itself just going through an exercise to
fill time. The men and women who have been appointed to
this Task Force are absolutely serious and committed to
the proposition that we -- of what you articulated, which
is this may be the last best opportunity to ensure that
whatever we can do to ensure that there is parental
input, community input, especially at the local level
that that happens.
So I know, because I know all the members
of this Task Force very well, after we spent some time
together, that the words that you offered to us were very
well received and very well understood.
Do we have any questions? Mr. Clayton.
MR. CLAYTON: How are you doing?
MS. BLAKE: Okay.
MR. CLAYTON: I would like to thank you
for your testimony and also the many years of you being
in the NAACP of which I am a member and my sons are
lifetime members.
MS. BLAKE: I'm a Golden Life Member, my
husband and I. For those of you who don't know what that
means, that means one thousand dollars each, a total of
two thousand dollars.
MR. CLAYTON: Excellent. And I also --
you also proved once again that an involved parent
produces academic performance for their children, because
you have a daughter with a Master's Degree from Harvard,
commendable. You're to be commended for that.
You're also to be commended for your doing
something also about the situation at hand by starting an
after school program in your faith group there. That's
commendable and we need a lot more of that from the
communities. Communities really being involved in a
meaningful way and your group is showing the example
right there.
I also like the fact you said you have
your hands on the pulse of what's going on. You're in
the school every day and you see the need for parents to
be given some professional development. That if parents
were given professional development, you could see a lot
more being gained by that school community.
Can you elaborate on your school
leadership team in the building? Do they have
significant training? Are they functioning? Can you
give us some input again on how parental involvement can
be strengthened on the local level?
MS. BLAKE: Well I can just reinforce the
fact that there is such a small group. As a person who
spoke previously and I feel ignorant about it, because
you all know her. But I certainly didn't know who she
was. But every school I've been involved in, there
always seems to be a small group. And I'd like to say at
this point, that my mother was the PTA President when I
was growing up. So I come from a family that knows the
importance of being involved.
She was the President at my public school
and she was the President at Roosevelt, where my older
sister attended. And so we know. But there seems to be
a small group and we have to enlarge those groups.
Always a small group and they always manage to get what
they want most of the time from the principal. And the
principal plays a game with them so they don't really get
too involved and it shouldn't continue. But I see it and
I have seen it. And I guess I have to confess, I never
really got involved with the PTA other than joining it,
because my older daughter is hearing impaired and I spent
a lot of time working with her so that she is the woman
that she is today. She has a family and she works and
everything else.
So, but they all knew me. They knew my
husband. They knew me. We let them know who we were.
When there was a need, we were there. But I was never
one of those who -- and I was too busy getting -- I was
married young and I had started college and I met this
good looking guy and I decided I would marry him. I
shouldn't even say that. I should say he decided he
would marry me. Because I'll have to hear that when I go
home.
But anyway, so then afterwards I went back
to school. So by going back to school, I had my own
agenda. So I didn't have time to play games. So I had
two children and so I knew what my goals were. So I
didn't get involved in all of that.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Ms. Brown?
MS. BROWN: Being that we all know that in
schools not all parents want to be involved in
governance, so you won't always find a small segment of
the population that's willing to be the leadership in the
school building.
But again, how would you go about engaging
the other members of the school community, meaning the
parents who stand outside on the corner, who will never
step into the building, no matter how much you try to
condole them into the building. What would be your first
avenue of getting those people into the building or
getting information out to them since they don't
necessarily come in and engage in those types of
activities?
MS. BLAKE: Okay. One of the things that
I failed to do because I wasn't here to toot my own horn,
but I was the founder of a committee called Committee for
Excellence in Education Through Parent Involvement. I
started a group and as it said, Committee for Excellence
in Education Through Parent Involvement. So we went to
various PTA's and we helped them to get their parents
involved.
One of the things that we did is we said
if you -- children bring -- they draw parents, the ones
that can draw. And if you have them performing, the
parents will come out. If they are young enough, they
can't come out anyway without their parents. So they
would come out.
For instance, February if they did
something for Black History Month or March if they did
something for Women's History Month, et cetera, et
cetera, et cetera. So we worked with a number of schools
in our district. We're from District #11. And you might
say, well, those of you who know about District #11, you
figure oh, well those, you know that's one of the best
districts. I think it's a top district. But we still
have the same problems. You know, the parents didn't get
involved.
So we did things like that nature.
Sometimes we did the class that had the highest
attendance would get a pizza party or an ice cream party.
So we had to do that too, to get the parents involved.
But those were the things that we did. Or we had a
raffle or whatever the case may be.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Mr. DeLeon?
MR. DE LEON: Miss Blake, thank you for
your thoughtful remarks. My question is from your
experience are there any resources committed or available
to the school to help the school deal with children from
dysfunctional families for the family and if there isn't,
is there a need for that?
MS. BLAKE: There are counselors. They
have counselors on top of counselors and on top of
counselors. And they counsel them. But when you're a
little child and your heart is broken because your mother
and father aren't together or you don't even know that
you have a father. I mean we hear things that are really
heart wrenching. So you have counseling. But how are
you going to help a seven year old child deal with the
fact that his mother and father just broke up? All the
counseling in the world and the mother has her problems.
The father may not even want to -- they may not even be
connected anymore.
So, like I said, I can only tell you what
the problems are. I don't know the answers. But I just
know our children come to school with a lot of baggage, a
lot of baggage.
MR. DE LEON: And you feel that there's
sufficient resources to help them with the baggage or you
need more?
MS. BLAKE: So you have a counselor, now
what? I mean you're seven years old. What do you do?
The counselor talks to you. You talk to the counselor.
You still have to go back home to that environment. Or
you're in a foster home. Maybe you're in a foster home
because they need extra money and it's not about loving
you and caring about you. You know, this is what you're
dealing with. In this twenty-first century, these are
the problems that we're dealing with.
MR. DE LEON: Thank you.
MS. BLAKE: Knowing you, you may know some
nice little homes where there's a mother and a father and
everything is so honky dory. But they're rare. They are
so rare. My husband and I just celebrated our fortieth
wedding anniversary. We renewed our vows. And a
minister said to us, how do you -- how could you stand
each other for forty years. I mean what is that to say
to somebody? I mean that just shows you a sign of the
times. So, you know, children are in and out. You know
there are uncles -- children that live with uncles,
different uncles coming in, a revolving door. I mean
what do you say? I don't have an answer.
I just know that our children are in
trouble and you may be able to help in some way. You're
not magicians or miracle workers, but you know, that's
all I can say.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Okay. Mr. Levin.
MR. LEVIN: I'm not sure, I'll be able to
articulate a question. But let me start. In my own
experience I've seen a teacher and a social worker too of
my members of my family here in the Bronx reach in at the
sole of children and give them self esteem, where there's
no parental involvement at all. And you talked about the
church. You even mentioned the start of a Christian
school.
Is there some way that we, trying to work
through a government institution, can import values
whether they're spiritual values, the values of an
education into a system that will not take the place of a
dysfunctional family, but somehow deal with education
that's more than just the pedagogical problem?
MS. BLAKE: To intelligently answer you,
that would take a lot of thought, really. So I'm not
prepared at this time to answer that question. It's an
excellent question.
I also wanted to further elaborate. You
said faith based, but we are not going to be asking
anybody for any money, because we don't want anyone to
dictate to us what to do. So we won't be asking for any
money. We're going to be -- it's going to be based on
the principals of Mary McCloud Bethune.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Assemblyman Rivera.
ASSEMBLYMAN RIVERA: Good afternoon, Miss
Blake. Both you and Mr. Tuitt said something which I
wanted to pick up on.
MS. BLAKE: Oh, I'm sorry. You're good
afternoon to me. I thought you meant -- so I was --
that's why I was -- okay. Cultural differences. When
you say good afternoon to most people, that's it, we're
finished. All right. I'll just skip rocks again.
ASSEMBLYMAN RIVERA: You said something
that Mr. Tuitt said that I wanted to pick up on. And I
have no qualms with what you said. You said that
District #11 is the best district in the Bronx. Because
the reason I have no qualms with that is because I have a
piece of District #11. So I can agree with you and not
worry about some of my other parts of my district
disagreeing with you.
But what makes District #11 that unique,
that it is the best. I'm sure you've make that statement
before and you've given it some thought. Why is District
#11 different from some of the other districts in the
Bronx and what makes it unique and what is that little
spark that it has that you have noticed?
MS. BLAKE: Well I think District #11 has
a lot of home owners and I think that that makes a
difference. They are experiencing a piece of the pie, a
piece of the American dream. They may be working two and
three jobs, but the fact remains that they do have a
home. They may have to pay for it for the next thirty
years, but the fact remains they do have that. And I
think a certain percentage of them may be immigrants.
Many of them are from the various islands. And I can
probably say my father was some St. Thomas, Virgin
Islands. So, I think that has a lot to do with it. And
they want to -- they came for a reason. And the reason
was to share and so they want to pass that down to their
children as well. So I think that has a lot to do with
it.
And then a lot of them also are
Christians, a high percentage -- if they're not
Christians, they believe in a superior being. So I think
that has a lot to do with it as well. So they're
actively involved, but not as actively as we would like
them to be. But they are actively involved.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Well before I say good
afternoon to you, first I want to thank you very much for
being here. You've added a great deal to our thinking
and also to our feeling about what we need to do to
improve public education.
So I want to thank you very much. I want
to thank who you refer to as the good looking minister in
the back who escorted you here today. I want to
congratulate you on forty years and wish you an equal
number of more years in the future. And as I've said to
some of your other colleagues, we so much appreciate the
work, the ongoing work of the NAACP. You've made an
enormous difference as an organization and then I can see
you as an individual.
We thank you for sharing your wisdom and
your insight with us this afternoon.
MS. BLAKE: You're quite welcome. And I
wish all of you the best. And I hope that by
registering, I will receive some written information so
that I can critique it.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: We will try to
communicate back to many of the people who have testified
before us today. And we so much appreciate your time.
MS. BLAKE: Okay. Happy holidays to all
of you.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Thank you. Has -- no.
Even before I asked the question, I was being given the
answer. Well we've reached a point in time. Let me just
say this.
We have three more individuals, all from
Community School Board 7 who had pre-registered, plus one
other individual who had indicated her interest in
testifying during the afternoon session. Given the fact
that they're not here at this moment, let me just say we
will take a ten minute recess. I'll call it a pause.
We'll take a ten minute pause and see if any of those
individuals have arrived in ten minutes and if not, then
we will say a few words to each other and resume at 6:00.
But let's take a ten minute pause based on
the clock to our left. So let's just make sure we're
back here in ten minutes to four.
(Off the record)
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Okay, we are going to
resume. Let me just mention to the members of the Task
Force that Mr. Levin suggested as we did in Queens, that
before we break for dinner, and it looks like we'll have
an extended break for dinner so you will all be able to
relax a little bit. But before we do that, after we
complete the testimony in the few moments that we have a
short meeting just to get ourselves coordinated for this
evening and the next several weeks to come.
So please stay here and we'll do that
meeting at the conclusion of the testimony.
So we have still three individuals, all
from Community School Board 7 who were scheduled to
testify. They are not here yet. However, Arlene, I
believe it's Trehene from Community School District 4.
Is that correct?
MS. TREHENE: CS-4.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Oh, from CS-4, okay.
From CS-4 and she is the Title I Chairperson. So, we
invite you and your brother to the -- I know that. I
heard Miss Trehene refer to -- I know that. Hi Martin.
Okay, we welcome you, Miss Trehene and
because you weren't here earlier I should just make
mention that fact that we know that everybody has a lot
to say because there's a lot to talk about in education.
We are trying to limit testimony to no more than five
minutes. That will enable the members of the Task Force
perhaps to engage in a couple of questions and answers.
And we're delighted you're here. Thank you.
MS. TREHENE: Thank you and I presented
the speech that I'm supposed to be talking about to the
Chair, because I only made one copy out of my printer
this morning. And it states, good morning. My name is
Arlene Trehene. I am a parent first of two children, one
in college and my son is in Public School, CS-4, right
here in the Bronx. I'm here today to urge you on
providing a parental involvement system that is effective
and productive and that provides positive unity in
educating our children.
Now I wrote this poem this morning.
That's how quick I did this, and the poem is "What a
Parent Needs in the New York City School System."
Parents need a place to go in their neighborhood where
they can discuss with another parent the issues occurring
at their child's school without being scrutinized.
Parents who talk about an issue at their child's school
should not be told I will get back with you and months
pass and nothing is resolved. Parents should be given
their New York City Department of Education Parents
Rights Handbook and attend a workshop with a certified
school counselor the first day they admit their child to
school and not at a principal's meeting. Parents need a
place where they can be empowered enough to say it's not
fair, it's not right. This is educational neglect or
this is child abuse. Parents need a place that they can
call or enter that is open in their neighborhood before
school starts and after school closes when they get off
from work. Parents should not have to fill out an intake
form unless their going to resolve their issues
immediately. Parents need a place where they can say
something's wrong. It happened at my child's school.
Could you please give me a report on the yesterday's
events at the school in 72 hours, not the next School
Board Meeting. Parents need a check and balance system
when the School Administrator says, we have all new
certified teachers, new text books and computers in all
the classrooms, where parents could actually see with
their own eyes and give a report that yes, at this school
we do have these things. Parents need a place where they
can sit and be a decision making table with a budget and
educational data to provide accurate decision making
suggestions and not be told what the school has, what
they're going to be spending the money on, and what
programs they are going to receive at the school.
Parents need a place when they can't afford to pay $1.50
for a half fare bus pass and get a full fare bus pass
without making their children walk to school or be absent
from school. Parents need resource rooms open with
educational information in all the languages in their
neighborhood. Parents need a resource room where they
can go on a computer and look up the types of programs
and educational resources that they might not be provided
in their neighborhoods. Parents need a resource room and
Parents Association rooms that can hold at least ten
parents comfortably and not the main office of the school
or a storage closet. Parents need a place where they
don't have a translator and the seven popular translator
languages are the only thing that they have and still get
the school information in English and Spanish and can't
get a translation without cost or shame because they
don't speak these languages or told "If you don't speak
these languages, we don't have a program for your child."
Parents with newly arriving children from another nation
can automatically receive tutorial services so the child
would not be picked on because they don't understand the
language. Parents need a place when they move from one
address to another and their child is in a special needs
program, doesn't have to wait two weeks for a routing
change for a pick up to and from school. Parents need a
place they can ask questions where they can say I was
informed my child is going to be left back for the second
time. Where do I go? What steps do I take? And make
sure that their child will be placed in the right grade
in September and get a real alternative answer. Parents
need a place that generates information and disseminates
information weeks prior to the event, not the same day.
Parents need a place where they can say the play area at
the school is unsafe. Could somebody check on it with a
72 hour response. Parents need a place they are not told
your child is in a Chancellor's District so you have no
say in our Community School District. Parents need a
place when they are harassed and abused in a school that
they can have their child placed in another school by
just making one phone call.
In closing, I'd like to thank all of the
Task Force members and I hope you have a great evening
and I hope this poem influences you enough to understand
what parents really do need in the school system.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Well Miss Trehene we
are delighted that you were able to be with us today and
you brought really the subject of all that we are doing
with you today. Martin, is it? Yes, we are delighted
that you are here, Martin. That your mom had an
opportunity to bring you with her. And we very much
appreciate your views that I think were very well put
together in this presentation the problems that parents
go through and their inability to get the kinds of
answers in a timely manner that they need when they have
to navigate a very complicated education system.
Do we have any questions? Mr. Clayton,
then Miss Brown.
MR. CLAYTON: How are you doing?
MS. TREHENE: Hi.
MR. CLAYTON: Thanks for coming today.
MS. TREHENE: Thank you.
MR. CLAYTON: And I just want to point out
that by your testimony here today, that this is another
example of parental involvement that didn't require you
actually going up to the school. In other words what I'm
trying to say is when you go home, make sure you explain
to your son what mommy was doing, testifying today, what
this was all about, and that was a parental involvement
on a level that we talk about to our parents throughout
the city. I thank you for being here and bringing him.
MS. TREHENE: Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Miss Brown?
MS. BROWN: I know your issue all too
well. Miss Trehene's school is a District #85 school.
Since we're talking about Community School Boards, the
issue with your School District #85, were you able to go
to your School Board with your issue and if not, how do
you think the School Board in your district could have
been improved to answer some of the questions that you
have?
MS. TREHENE: Okay. First of all, I'd
like to address this issue right now. District #85
everything is being handled at 110 Livingston Street.
Parents are told when they go to the District that this
school cannot be serviced here, in the Bronx. You will
have to go to 110 Livingston in Brooklyn. And if you
live in the Bronx and you do not have the $3.00
transportation, you cannot get any help. So you're
basically stranded.
Now if there was some sort of system in
place where we, as parents, could come and merge together
and get these issues solved at the District Level, it
would be a betterment for all parents because just the
inconvenience alone to have to go to Brooklyn from the
Bronx is one thing. And then you're in a high poverty
neighborhood is another.
MS. BROWN: But right, District #85 for
those who don't know, as the Chancellor's District and
those are schools that have been placed under
registration review. Your local school district would
be?
MS. TREHENE: District #9.
MS. BROWN: District #9 and I just need
for clarification, District #9's School Board is not able
to intervene in District #85 school issues.
MS. TREHENE: Exactly and also does not
include any parent in the Chancellor District to attend
their events.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Well we are very
grateful for the fact that I know how busy your day is
and that you were able to take some time to join us and
share your thoughts with us and bring that good looking
guy with you. What a face, who looks just like you.
MS. TREHENE: Thank you.
MR. LEVIN: And you should be encouraged
to continue to write your poetry.
MS. TREHENE: Yes, thanks.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: We thank you very much.
MS. TREHENE: Okay, thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Okay. We do not have
anyone else on our list to testify this afternoon. We
will re-convene these proceedings at 6:00 P.M.
In the meantime, however, members, Mr.
Levin suggested and I think it was a good suggestion that
before we make our way to our dinners and whatever, that
perhaps we do what we did in Queens and just have a short
impromptu meeting. So, let me suggest that everyone from
me to Ms. Mullen just come around on this side so we
could be facing each other,
Everyone from Mr. Rivera to the right just
--
(Evening session begins)
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: We're going to begin in
just a couple of minutes. Okay. Good evening everybody.
We are very happy that you are here, so many of you,
right at a little bit past 6:00. We have a full evening
of testimony and discussion ahead of us.
So I want to make some brief opening
remarks at the outset, so that everybody will sort of
have an understanding as to what we're doing.
First of all, let me just ask for a show
of hands if I might. Are there people in the room who
feel that they need a translator right now? Okay, Nancy
is here so -- my name is Steven Sanders. I am the Co-
Chair of the Task Force on Community School Governance
Reform. The Co-Chair of this Task Force is Terri
Thomson. Terri Thomson had a little bit of shoulder
surgery yesterday. She is home, but we have a telephone
hook-up, so she is listening to these proceedings and is
terrific that even one day after her surgery she is up
and about and hearing everything that is being said this
evening.
Many of you know that earlier this year in
June, the State Legislature enacted some very dramatic
changes in the way that New York City School Governance
System is managed. A lot of those changes gave to the
Mayor of the City of New York more authority and
accountability. Many of those changes gave to the
Mayor's hand picked Chancellor more authority and
accountability, as was so with the local District
Superintendents. As some of you also know, that
legislation eliminates, abolishes local Community School
Boards as of the end of this school year on June 30th of
2003.
However, it was not the intention of the
State Legislature to eliminate community representation
or parental input; quite the opposite. The purpose of
the legislation and the language of the legislation said
that we need to change and hopefully make better
community representation and replace the local Community
School Boards with some other kind of entity, some other
kind of structure that, hopefully, would provide even
greater community input and parental accessibility.
As a result of that, the legislation
created this Task Force. And it provided that the
Speaker of the Assembly and the State Senate Majority
Leader each appoint ten members to this Task Force and
the Task Force's responsibilities is to hold at least one
public hearing in every borough, which we are doing.
Last week we held a hearing in Manhattan, last Tuesday.
And then on Thursday we were in Queens. Today we're in
the great borough of the Bronx. And on Monday, January
the 6th, we'll be on Staten Island, and we will complete
the public hearing phase on Thursday, the 16th of January
in Brooklyn.
We've also tried, as best as we could to
make sure that the hearings that we are holding are being
held in places and at times where as many people who wish
to will have an opportunity to share with us their views
about what we need to do with the community school
district level to make community involvement, parental
input as good as possible and that's the reason why we
are dividing these hearings in each borough into two
sessions; one during the day time, and one in the
evening. We are mindful of the fact that
many parents and many members of the community for many
reasons are unable to come out during the day time, and
it's easier in the evening. In fact there may be some
students who will wish to testify and we know that
they're in school during the day. So we have made it our
business to make sure that we hold a lot of these
hearings in the evening and that's what we are doing this
evening.
We are required after the hearings are
over to come up with a proposal, to come up with a
recommendation no later than February the 15th as to how
we are going to replace the local community school
boards. That isn't a lot of time. That will basically
give this Task Force about 30 days after the hearings are
over to come to an agreement on how we can enhance and
make better community representation and parental input.
A lot of our views about how we should
make community representation better will be developed
and informed by what we hear at these public hearings. I
think I speak for all of the members of the Task Force
when I say that in the first two days and then the first
part of today, we've heard a lot of testimony from
several scores of New Yorkers, 40 or 50 New Yorkers
already who have given us the benefit of their views and
I think it has helped us already begin to shape our own
opinions about how we can make communities as involved in
local education matters as we can.
So we're listening very carefully. And
that really is our primary role right now to listen to
you. We are going to ask you when you come up to testify
this evening to try to confine your remarks to no more
than five minutes. Now I know that that's not a lot of
time and I know that there's a lot that is on people's
minds, and we understand that. But in order to be able
to hear from as many people as possible, and also perhaps
to have some questions and answers from the Panel to the
people who will be testifying, I will need to limit your
testimony to about five minutes.
So when and if you have gone past the five
minute point, I will try to give you a gentle and polite
signal that it's time to wrap up and I hope you will not
feel that is disrespectful. But it is done in order to
let as many people have their say tonight as we possibly
can do.
One final note before I ask the members of
the Task Force to introduce themselves and tell you a
little bit about themselves. There are some people who
have testified at the previous hearings who have
expressed a view that they would wish to see the current
local community School Boards remain in tact. And I
understand that that is a sentiment that is felt by some,
shared by some. The State Legislature however, made that
decision in June already. That decision was debated and
discussed and there was a decision made in June that the
School Boards as they exist right now and have existed
for the last 30 years are going to be replaced by
something and it is our responsibility, the members of
the Task Force to figure out what that something is that
will replace the local Community School Boards.
So although I know there will be some
people who will wish to say just keep everything the way
it is, that's not really an option that we have at our
disposal. So the best use of your time and the best use
of your testimony is to tell us how you feel that the
current structure can be made better and what we ought to
do to replace it. Because let me just emphasize in
closing again, that in abolishing the local Community
School Boards it was the intention of the Legislature not
to leave a void or a vacuum, but to replace it with
something that will be better, more effective, give the
community and parents even better representation and
access to their local schools and their local Community
School Districts even better than existed before.
So, let me turn to my far left. I think
Jane is on my far left, and the members of this Task
Force will give a brief introduction of themselves and
then we'll get to the really important business of the
evening which is your testimony.
MS. ARCE-BELLO: Good evening. I'm Jane
Arce-Bello, a Community Activist from the Bronx.
MS. MC KENNA: Good evening. My name is
Rose McKenna and I'm a former member of Community School
#10.
MR. FRIEDMAN: Good evening. My name is
Jack Friedman. I'm from North East Queens. I spent ten
years as a member of a Community School Board. But my
most important job is being a parent of two high school
students in New York City Public Schools.
MR. LEVIN: I'm Jerry Levin, a retired CEO
of AOL-Time Warner. My family and I are committed to the
public school system in New York City, most particularly
in the Bronx where they have been very active most
pointedly at Taft High School.
MR. CLAYTON: Good evening. Ernest
Clayton, President of the United Parents Association of
New York City. I have six sons in the public school
system. I, myself, am a product of the public school
education and a CUNY graduate.
ASSEMBLYMAN RIVERA: Good evening. I'm
Peter Rivera. I'm a member of the State Assembly from
the Bronx, the 76th Assembly District. I Chair the
Puerto Rican-Hispanic Task Force and the Committee on
Cities.
MS. BROWN: I'm Robin Brown, Chairperson
Chancellor's Parent Advisory Council. I have a child in
the fourth grade and a son in a Pre-Kindergarten.
MS. REDDINGTON: Bunny Reddington,
currently serving as Vice Chair on Community Board #31,
School Board #31 in Staten Island.
MR. DE LEON: Good evening. My name is
Bob DeLeon. First let me welcome all of you for coming
out here. I know it's rough when you work all day and
you've got to do these kinds of things. But it's a must.
Again, my name is Bob DeLeon. I'm the representative
from Manhattan and I am a former parent activist in East
Harlem. Thank you.
MS. HILL: Good evening. My name is Renee
Hill. I am a product of the public school system, born
and raised in the Bronx, and I'm a practicing criminal
defense attorney for the past ten years.
MS. HAHN: Yanghee Hahn from Flushing,
Queens. I have access to various Asian Immigrants
Communities.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Very good. And before
we begin with our first witness, let me just once again
remind people that we do have a translator and we will
make that announcement a couple of times during the
course of the evening. She is in the back. She has her
hands raised. So if you are in need of translation help,
please see Nancy in the back.
And let me just advise the members of the
Task Force. As you have the schedule in front of your of
witnesses, I would just advise you just for your own
edification that we already have about ten or twelve add
ons and we are going to try to accommodate as many
people, hopefully everybody, the people who are pre-
registered and the people who have been gracious enough
to arrive tonight. And we will try to hear from
everybody.
Let me just make mention the fact that
Katherine Wylde has just arrived. And she is the
President of New York City Partnership.
Once again, I'm going t ask, really plead
for you to keep your remarks to about five minutes. And
if you sort of lost track of the time, I'll give you a
very gentle reminder so we can keep the evening moving as
well as we can.
Our first witness tonight is Alex
Betancourt who is the Deputy Executive Director of Aspira
of New York, Inc.
MR. BETANCOURT: Good evening Chairman
Sanders, Co-Chair Thomson, Assemblyman Rivera and Members
of the Panel on Community School District Governance
Reform.
My name is Alexander Betancourt and I am
here this evening representing Aspira of New York, Inc.
and the 8,000 New York City public school students and
parents that we serve.
I would just like our parents to stand by
way of introduction. Thank you.
Aspira of New York, Inc. has a long
standing history of work in the public education domain
since 1961 , and today continues to provide an array of
services to youth, parents and public schools. For the
last 41 years we have carefully watched, waited,
litigated and often prodded the system to answer the
Latino Community's wake-up call and the conditions facing
our schools, students and communities.
Today in the borough of the Bronx, there
are 186 elementary and middle schools in Community School
District 7-12. Ninety-five are SURR or low performing,
either within the Chancellor's District or under local
district control. Of the 31 high schools in the Bronx,
there are currently seven SURR or low performing schools.
As you know, the Bronx has just gotten into the movement
of creating small theme based high schools as a partial
response to the declining in academic performance.
Too many Latino parents have children that
today are languishing in schools that offer them no hope
or future. Our dropout rates continue to skyrocket, the
push out rates increase with a Machiavellian efficiency
and we are left in communities that are essentially
bereft of "any student" having the opportunity to
experience educational success from Pre-K through high
school. To a large degree, the future of our
hemorrhaging schools now rests in City Hall, and more
symbolically in the Tweed Building. We now have the
opportunity to exercise public review and accountability
with the Mayor or vote with our feet if we are left no
choices in the public education arena. We are now at a
point where the line must be drawn in the sand. We
either muster the political will and the necessary
resources to move our schools beyond lock down, or we
engage in an exodus from the public school system to
other educational venues.
Our work over the past 41 years and most
recently with the last four has served to affirm several
facts. There is a crisis of public confidence among the
citizens of the city that the public education system can
be reformed and improved. Latino parents understand that
there is no choice among bad choices when it comes to the
schooling of their children. Latino parents are
experiencing a serious drift and disconnect from a system
that has never been friendly, pre or post school boards.
Latino parents, while strong supporters of public
education will always seek the best for their children
despite limited means, access and information.
Given this context, we ask ourselves, are
we moving toward a performance based system, and if so,
what is meaningful parent and community participation int
his debate about Community School District and
governance. Our view and definition of meaningful
participation is one that includes us as parents in the
governance structure with the type of support and
preparation to be effective and accountable to all
parents who send their children to New York City public
schools. Those model of meaningful participation is at
the core of the 1996 New York State Legislation mandating
that the Chancellor develop a plan ensuring that every
public school have an effective School Leadership Team,
School Leadership Teams that include parents as partners
in the process of improving school based performance.
How is this new educational market place
going to differ from the old? Will our children learn to
read, write and compete with the challenges of the new
market place? Where do we as parents fit into this new
order? History and research both show us that the
"consumer" parent has to drive the engine of change. As
our children's first teacher, we must challenge the
system as it has never been challenged before to
seriously consider the following recommendations.
Now these recommendations relate to the
issue of District Governance Reform. We envision the
potential for a system that is much more efficiently
managed, yet flexible enough to allow for local district
decision making and public input. This new system should
provide for meaningful public and parent expression of
concern; facilitate communication between all stakeholder
from the community, schools and Chancellor; engage and
enable broad parent and public participation at key
decision making levels in the system.
The new district governance structure
should consist of all key constituencies with no less
than 50 percent parent representation and be charged with
two core responsibilities; improve public school
performance within local districts, and monitor the
effective utilization of resources to achieve the above.
We believe that performance has a deep
relation to the money and we need to follow the money if
we're ever going to address the issue of school
improvement.
Within this newly formed district
governance framework accountability would be embedded
consistent with the intent of the 1996 legislation,
leading to the creation of School Leadership Teams,
budget and expenditure review in consultation with
parents and the public in open meetings. Educational
policy considerations affecting school performance and
budget and are discussed and negotiated in a public
forum. The approval of the district level comprehensive
educational plan for all of the schools and the ability
of local constituents to assess the performance of a
District Superintendent in consultation with parents, the
public and the Chancellor.
The infrastructure needed to enact this
model presented is to a large degree existent within
local schools with functional leadership teams.
Consistent with the '96 legislation, it is imperative
that the Chancellor demonstrate full support of School
Leadership Teams and that resources be dedicated to the
development of capacity and the core competencies needed
for functional and effective teams, including a dedicated
effort to train parents.
Consideration should also be given to the
consolidation of all local school teams that operate
across functional areas and committees into the overall
structure of the school based leadership team. There is
significant anecdotal evidence of team dysfunction amid
competing interests not solely centered on school
improvement, but tangential issues related to work place
demands. The Principal as the Chief Instructional
Officer of the school must have the capacity to operate
in a streamlined consultative management structure that
facilitates the educational mission of the school.
We would also recommend that great care be
taken by the Task Force in recommending new
organizational and structural alignments to the New York
City Department of Ed that are rooted in competition and
competing organizational interests that would only
further erode the focus on improved performance. Or as
Yogi Berra once said, "it would be Deja vu all over
again."
In closing, we recognize and respect the
charge of this Task Force. At the end of the day,
parents of the 1.2 million school children of New York
will be affected by your recommendations and the
political process that will follow to reach consensus.
From our perspective, there can be no new legitimate
governed structure without parents at the local school
and district level. If we are to effectively move the
system toward greater local school autonomy, parents
should be engaged at each critical point in the process
if we are truly committed to "Children First" so that in
fact "No Child is Left Behind."
Thank you you for your interest and
support. Please note we've added additional details to
this document regarding Team Composition. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: And we thank you you
very much, Mr. Betancourt. Let me see if we have any
questions. Ms. Brown?
MS. BROWN: I just have one question. In
the work that you've been doing with School Leadership
Teams, what two key pieces need to be done to move the
community and to move parents to effectively advocate for
schools in the district and for the local schools?
MR. BETANCOURT: I think the two key
variables that we see are the variance in team
performances affected by School Leadership. So we have
to have assessments that are in place on the capacity of
school leaders to work with teams. And then we have to
look at teams and their overall assessment and capacity.
I think there are some issues of core competencies, that
quite frankly parents feel totally dealt out of the loop
with.
If we can address the building of those
competencies, then we can develop a unified system.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Miss Arce-Bello?
MS. ARCE-BELLO: Hi, Alex. First I want
to say as in Aspira -- and a product of the Aspira
process how greatly encouraged I continue to be by
Aspira's leadership in all of these areas.
MR. BETANCOURT: Thank you.
MS. ARCE-BELLO: And I commend the parents
for coming out this evening. Alex in addition to the
parents, who else do you think should be part of this
governing body?
MR. BETANCOURT: I think you need to have
every single stakeholder at that table from the UFT and
CSA to the parents and note that I'm saying 50 percent
parent. It could be 51. I think that we have to be
really keenly focused on who the customer is in this
process. And the customer is the parent. And if we're
going to restore public confidence back in the system,
we've got to make parents really feel like it's going to
change and it's going to be different.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Mr. Clayton?
MR. CLAYTON: How are you doing, Alex?
First I'd like to thank you for your testimony and I'd
like to also commend the work that Aspira has been doing
for over the last 32 I think years. Some great work in
the Latino Community.
MR. BETANCOURT: Thank you.
MR. CLAYTON: I like what you say that the
Chancellor needs to demonstrate full support for these
Leadership Teams, and we've heard a lot about that. That
Central needs to give these teams and parents, in
particular, more respect. Because they fell like they're
being disrespected. And I also like what you say in here
about a consolidation should be given to have all these
local leadership teams come together where they can share
experiences and functional information.
Sam Anderson from the Medgar Evers School
of Social Law and Order Justice was here the other day in
Manhattan, and he gave a model that was pretty
interesting, and I see you have an aspect of it when you
talk about there should be a consolidation somehow of
these local teams where they can share ideas. And his
thought was to have mini conventions that in New York
that will take place, maybe over the period of three
days, that we have these mini conventions.
I just wanted to get your feedback on
that, on mini conventions.
MR. BETANCOURT: I think that information
sharing across all of the constituencies is of paramount
importance or ernest. But my comments regarding the
consolidation of teams really relates more to what a
local principal does, you know, during a day in his life.
When he may meet with four to five different teams, each
with different personalities to some degree, all driven
by different agendas. I am talking about making the
Leadership Team the central decision making body in any
single school so that curriculum issues, budget issues,
all of the other issues that principals have to deal with
really would get dealt with through one team, so that
there isn't the need for a principal to have to go crazy
meeting seven and ten different teams in order to move a
management agenda forward.
That's basically it.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Assemblyman Rivera.
ASSEMBLYMAN RIVERA: Again, Alex I want to
thank you on behalf of all of us here --
MR. BETANCOURT: Thank you.
ASSEMBLYMAN RIVERA: -- for the work that
not only you do, but that Aspira has done. And again as
Member Clayton indicated, going back 30, 35 years, back
to the Aspira consent to create a whole bunch of other
cases, as you know the Hispanic parent provides a
different dynamic of the whole issue of parental
involvement, parental concern. And I know that Aspira
has looked at this issue through the years.
How do we as a Task Force -- how can we
better get parental participation, parental involvement
in the whole dynamics of language and the school
structure? How do we do that?
MR. BETANCOURT: I can give you the short
answer, Assemblyman Rivera, which goes back to a
conversation that I had with Joe Fernandez now almost 12
years ago. And Joe Fernandez basically told me that when
we were trying to bring community based organizations
into schools is that once you get the doors open, it's
going to be extremely difficult to close them again.
Many of our parents today still feel that the doors to
the school system are largely closed.
Whether they are feelings that relate to
the symbolism of how schools operate, the cultures that
they operate that are sometimes often times aloof and
detached from the parents experience on a daily basis,
the new dynamic of Latino parent who is an immigrant to
this city, who fears deportation the minute he or she
makes a comment or a remark that may offend the
principal.
The many times that we've heard that
principals and/or members of school staff threaten to
call Special Services for Children or INS if the parent
makes a legitimate complaint, you know about the way the
son or daughter is being treated.
The trust and the compact between
community and school has to be restored. That compact
was never strong with Latino parents to begin with. In
my estimation the best way to manage that is to ensure
that our school systems continue to partner with
community based organizations who serve as a real easy
conduit to communities in a very trusting and non-
threatening manner.
It's my sense that every single school in
this city should have a community based organization
partner. That won't get me a lot of fans at Tweed, but
I'm going to tell you the truth about that.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Well Mr. Betancourt, I
know I speak for all the members of the Task Force. We
very much appreciate your being with us here tonight.
And we also so very much appreciate the work that you
have done for Aspira for so many years. You've been a
leader in public education. Your work is well recognized
and we very much appreciate your sharing your views with
us tonight.
MR. BETANCOURT: Thank you all. And I
want to thank the parents who came out to support us
today more than anything else.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Thank you. Our next
witness is one of the Bronx's favorite sons, Assemblyman
Jeff Dinowitz.
ASSEMBLYMAN DINOWITZ: Good evening
everybody. I'm State Assemblyman Jeffrey Dinowitz. I
represent the North West Bronx, the 81st Assembly
District. I apologize for not having any prepared
statement. I jotted down a few notes today while I was
intently listening at my mandatory continuing legal
education class. So I'm just going to refer to them.
Welcome to my Chairman, Steve Sanders, my
colleague, Peter Rivera, some fellow Bronxites and those
of you who are not so fortunate as to live in the Bronx.
I just wanted to make a few very brief
comments. When I was elected to the Assembly, which was
almost nine years ago, I felt very deeply committed to
abolishing Community School Boards because we saw over so
many years how they functioned or didn't function,
corruption, et cetera. And in the alternative, I felt we
at least had to remove the power from the Community
School Boards to appoint people to jobs which was the
source of much of the corruption. And in fact, that is
exactly what the State Legislature did in December, 1996
when we passed the reform bill in Albany. And I believe
that had a very dramatic effect on how School Boards
functioned in New York City. And at least it took care
of one of the problems that School Boards had, which was
the issue of patronage and corruption.
I don't think we've read a whole lot since
that time about those issues. Now the question now is
does a Board, do each of the Boards serve the educational
needs of our children. And if we want to keep the
Boards, in what form do we want to keep them or do we not
want to have local Boards.
I believe that if we do have some sort of
Community School Board it has to be an elected board. I
think anything other than that would be a step backwards.
I think having an appointed board for example by any
elected official does not contribute to improving
education for our children. And whether that's me
appointing them or some other person appointing them it
doesn't matter.
Do we want to have a more narrowly based
elected School Board and I think the answer to that is
no. Mr. Betancourt before me made a number of excellent
comments. And he talked about the various stakeholder.
Well there is one stakeholder that I don't think I heard
him talk about, and that's the rest of the community.
The schools consist not just of the teachers and the
parents and the principals and the students and the
unions, et cetera. It consists of the entire community.
If we were talking about health care and
hospitals, we wouldn't say well that's just about doctors
and nurses and unions and patients, it's about the entire
community. And unless the entire community feels that it
has a stake in the success of the schools, I don't
believe the schools will succeed.
Some have suggested that we should abolish
the School Board elections simply because of poor turn
outs. And over and over again we've heard people saying
well there's only a two percent or a three percent turn
out in the School Board elections, so we should abolish
the elections.
Now a two or a three percent turn out is
pretty bad. But I can tell you that there have been
other elections in recent years, special elections for
the Assembly or for the City Council where they had
single digit turn outs. I don't think I've heard anybody
say let's abolish elections for legislative office.
Poor turn out is not a reason to remove
from people the ability to participate in democracy.
What we need to do is to find a way to increase turn out.
My district in the last election and I think many of you
are aware of this had an amazing turn out, particularly
my part of the district where I would say we probably had
a 20 or 25 percent turn out. In fact our turn out was so
high in the 1999 School Board elections, that it was
higher than the turn out in the previous year's primary
for United States Senate when you had three heavy weight
candidates, Chuck Schumer, Gerry Ferraro, and Mark Green
running. And yet our communities, Riverdale,
Kingsbridge, and Van Cortland Village turned out in
greater numbers.
So why is that? And the reason we had a
greater turn out is because people had an incentive to
vote. We had something that the community wanted. The
community wanted to build a high school, a neighborhood
high school and people turned out in droves to make that
happen. The people in the community wanted to oust a
School Board which many perceived as racist and people
turned out in droves. We turned out, and I don't believe
that our community, the community that I represent ought
to be penalized because we haven't been as successful in
encouraging other areas to turn out.
The answer to poor turn outs once again,
is to do everything possible to encourage people to vote.
This is a democracy after all. What would replace
elected School Boards? Many people have said well let's
have a lot of parents. Let's have 50 percent parents.
Let's have all parents. You know there are a lot of good
people out there, parents and non-parents who should be
working for our children. In fact the person who just
left as the Bronx representative on the Board of
Education, Dr. Sandra Lerner, is no longer a public
school parent. Does that mean somebody of her calibre
would not be eligible to serve us and serve the
educational needs of our children? I don't think so.
I'm a product of the public schools, as
our my parents and my children. And I hope that my
children's children will be here in the Bronx and also be
a product of the public schools. And we are very
committed to the public schools. And that means that
everybody who believes in public education, whether or
not they have children in the school system at a
particular moment, we should make use of their talents.
District 10 which comprises most of my
Assembly District and much of District 10 and I have much
of District 10 in my district. Most of my district is 10
and much of 10 is mine. Probably a majority of the
schools there do not have functioning parent
associations. Or if some of the schools have parent
associations which are two or three people. Those are
not representative bodies of the parents.
You want to get everybody involved. And
simply saying well we have a parent association doesn't
mean you have a parent association which is
representative. I think it's our obligation and we're
trying to do this obviously through School Leadership
Teams, to get as many parents involved as possible. But
possibly limiting involvement on whatever Board may or
may not run our School District is not a way to encourage
more people to get involved.
Any Board that's not chosen by the entire
community, would be unrepresentative, narrowly based, and
I believe ineffective. My local board was elected by
thousands and thousands of people, not dozens, not
hundreds. Either you should eliminate the Boards
entirely, or make sure that you have Boards that are
elected by lots of people, people who feel they have a
stake in the system, people who participate in the
system, the entire community. And I would suggest that
you fix the election process. Maybe that means moving
the elections to November. Maybe it means voting
machines. We've heard all that before.
But if you eliminate the election process
and create a much more narrowly based system, whereby you
have only a few people running the schools or advising
the schools, it's going to be counter productive.
My Board works. Don't eliminate it. Don't
replace elected Boards with a narrowly based clique, not
democratically chosen by the community that it would
represent.
Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: We thank you very much,
Jeff. It has always been a pleasure. I know I speak for
Peter Rivera and it has been a pleasure to serve with you
to learn from your wisdom and your insight and
experience. I've always thought that the Bronx is
exceedingly lucky to have representatives like you and
Peter Rivera.
Are there any questions for Assemblyman
Dinowitz? Ms. Brown.
MS. BROWN: I have a question in reference
to the School Board turn out. Being that you don't have
the issue of getting a high school built again and I'm
guessing that the Board that folks didn't like have been
voted out. Do you still think you would have the double
digit turn out if you were to say have a school board
election next year?
ASSEMBLYMAN DINOWITZ: One thing I've
learned is never to make predictions like that. But I
will say that once you've gotten people involved in
something, whether it's the average voter in a School
Board election or the average parent in the school
itself, once you get them involved, I think you've hooked
them. And I believe that our community has been
activated and I think they would turn out. Now would
they turn out in as great numbers than if there wasn't as
controversial an issue? Maybe not.
But I think we've got them involved.
People care and I think one thing people learned in that
election was that the entire community has a stake in the
schools and unless we get the entire community to really
care about the schools, it's going to be very hard to fix
our schools.
MS. BROWN: I just have one more.
ASSEMBLYMAN DINOWITZ: Yes.
MS. BROWN: In School Boards right now
they are responsible for setting educational policy. How
has your School Board in your district engaged the
community in terms of setting educational policy as
related to student achievement?
ASSEMBLYMAN DINOWITZ: I think the School
Board has had -- well they had their normal meetings.
They've had hearings and I can tell you that I've been in
a number of those meetings and the turn outs at those
meetings I dare say has been significantly higher than
they've been in other places. Don't penalize the
district that turns people out. Let's try to get
everybody involved. That's really important, getting
people involved. Our School Board since the last
election, they've not only worked on the issue of
creating the neighborhood based middle school, high
schools, they've been involved in other areas, such as
trying to create gifted and talented programs where none
existed.
And other things such as bringing back the
spelling bee, having a district wide science fair, those
are things that weren't happening. This has been an act
of the School Board that's done things like that in order
to try to engage people throughout the district. And I
was at that science fair, I guess it was last year. And
it was so incredible. Kids from throughout the school
district, north, south, east and west who were doing
things that they hadn't been doing in the past, because
you had a School Board that's been pushing and pushing.
And I think it's been a success and I think --
ASSEMBLYMAN DINOWITZ: And I think that
when something is a success, you strut it and you don't
fix it.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Assemblyman Rivera.
ASSEMBLYMAN RIVERA: Good evening, Jeff.
ASSEMBLYMAN DINOWITZ: Good evening.
ASSEMBLYMAN RIVERA: One of the biggest
issues that I can recall in District 10 was the size of
the district, the fact that it is if not the largest, one
of the largest districts in the City of New York. And a
few years ago there was a discussion. In fact some
thought of legislation of trying to change the district
line so that it became a smaller district. And as you
will recall, Jeff, it became a very hot, political issue.
One of the discussions that this Panel is
having is just that. What do we do with district lines
and how do we alter them and how do we create a certain
balance in size of districts to say the least? What are
your thoughts on that? Is that something that -- what
are your thoughts on that?
ASSEMBLYMAN DINOWITZ: Several years ago
when there were hearings in the Bronx on proposed changes
in the district lines, I went to both of those hearings.
And in fact I spoke at the time against both of the
proposals that affected my district, because I really
thought the lines were done in such a way as to create
deviceness and to me it didn't make sense.
Having said that, however, District 10 is
indeed the largest district in the city in terms of
population. In fact I think it's probably the case that
it's the largest district in the entire state, possibly
with the exception of the city of Buffalo, but I'm not
even sure that Buffalo has more kids than District 10.
I think administratively it's probably
harder to govern a district that has 45,000 kids and over
50 schools than it is go govern a district that has say
10,000 kids and many fewer schools. If we continue to
have districts, and I think that's certainly a
possibility, I would think it would make sense to have
smaller districts. I'm not suggesting have a hundred
districts, because then you're going to have a hundred
bureaucracies instead of 32. But I do think that the
disparity in size between the largest district and the
smallest district is quite huge. It's probably a factor
of four at this point.
And even within the Bronx, there is some
districts which are much smaller and some districts by
the way which have many under populated schools. I do
think we have to be a little creative in terms of
alleviating overcrowding in the most overcrowded schools
and not letting a district line prevent overcrowding in
District 10 from being alleviated by moving some kids if
they're willing into nearby schools and nearby districts.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Well Assemblyman
Dinowitz, Jeff, we so much appreciate your being with us
tonight and representing your constituents in the Bronx
so very, very well. We know that you have a busy
schedule and we're very grateful that you spent some time
and shared your very important views with us tonight.
ASSEMBLYMAN DINOWITZ: Thank you, Mr.
Chairman. I appreciate the opportunity.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Thank you very much,
Jeff. Let me just say to the audience, A) we are so very
grateful that so many of you are here tonight. And that
means that when there are few conversations, it gets very
loud. And I know it's disconcerting to some of the
witnesses who are talking and we're also delighted that
there are so many youngsters with us tonight as well. So
I'm just going to ask you to make an extra special effort
to keep conversations very, very low or if you need to
have conversations, you can go to the back of the room
and then return.
Our next witness is Jean DePesa, Parent
Advocate. Once again, I'm going to remind people to try
to keep your remarks to no more than five minutes. I
will let you know when you have gone over.
MS. DE PESA: Good evening, Members of the
Task Force. My name is Jean Depesa and I'm a lifelong
resident of the Bronx. I had the honor of being elected
to two consecutive terms on Community School Board 8 in
the 1970's. Following that period, I also served for
four years as the President of United Parents
Association, representing at that time 400,000 public
school parents. I currently serve as the Parent
Coordinator in School District 8 and have the distinct
pleasure of working with the parents of children in our
schools on a daily basis.
As a young parent in the 70's,
Decentralization was my battle cry to educational reform.
We truly believed we could make the schools work in our
communities. Out of our efforts came participation in
the selection of superintendents and principals, (many of
whom have served with great distinction), local hearings
on tax levy and federal budgets, testimony on capital
budgets and school construction, position papers on
contractual issues for staff employed in the school
system, and most importantly the development of
curriculum to meet state requirements.
Sad to say, the media and the foes of
Decentralization focused on the negatives of Community
School Boards and neglected to highlight their positive
contributions to the educational agenda in New York City.
Most of the Boards served with distinction, but they were
painted with the same brush as those that failed. Each
change of Chancellor took us further away from our
original goals. Which programs to cut under the cycle of
budget constraints became the ongoing discussion in our
communities.
Which brings us to the present. The
Chancellor is holding forums on his reform initiative
"Children First." Actually last night in my district,
District 8, he was at I.S. 174. He hopes to hear from
five thousand parents, staff and community members to
help him formulate his plan. Thousands more than 5,000
have taken the time to vote in School Board elections
throughout New York City. But we give short shrift to
their voices.
He has formed working groups to draft his
blue print. Nowhere have I red that he will be holding
public hearings on the final plan. Who will say yay or
nay? Snippets that leak out to the refer to the L.A.
cluster model, which is already failing in California,
rotating superintendents, merging districts, and borough
councils. Some consideration is being given to
empowering School Leadership Teams as "local boards."
While this may appear to be going the distance for grass
roots, using the teams, once again we must use caution.
Without clearly delineating the role of team members and
the power that is bestowed upon them, we could be walking
into a mine field. The School Leadership teams are still
finding their way under the current governance
legislation and many have complained of their lack of
real empowerment. Who is responsible for organizational
design? Where does this Task Force fit into the
Chancellor's plan?
New York City is made up of a patchwork of
communities, interrelated by city services and political
lines, but most of all a unique sense of family
flourishes within these neighborhoods. School districts
have nurtured educational philosophies over the past
thirty odd years within these lines. To ignore the
culture of community in the name of reform is condemning
us to centralization, which failed us before.
Your task is monumental. How do you
eliminate Community School Boards without losing a sense
of community. How do you redistrict communities without
a loss of their identity.
Bottom line, we need to preserve the right
to vote for our public school governance representatives,
just like everyone else in New York State. We need to
restore meaningful powers to these elected
representatives. Responsibility for budget review, for
educational policy and planning and for holding staff
accountable for results should be returned to our local
representatives. Who better to express and respond to
the needs of a community than the local representatives?
All too often when a central body of officials listen to
the recommendations from the field, it is easy for them
to assume a "know it all" attitude,or not listen at all.
How often did a vote at the Central Board change once a
resolution was brought forth?
In closing, may I say that whatever plan
you may ultimately recommend, it should not be one that
responds to economic considerations. Fewer districts
with more schools and students may cut down on
administrative costs but at what cost to our sense of
community?
Finally, parents citywide, represented by
the Chancellor's Parent Advisory Council, CPAC, have
formulated recommendations to this Task Force. I urge
you to give serious weight to their position. These
parent leaders, who have entrusted their children to this
school system continue to participate and volunteer in
the footsteps of those of us who began the journey many
years ago.
Thank you for listening to someone who is
still fighting the fight.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: We thank you very much,
Jean DePesa. Let me see if we have -- Ms. Brown.
MS. DE PESA: Oh, Robin.
MS. BROWN: Thank you for your testimony.
But I just want to make one simple note on the
Chancellor's Parent Advisory Council. This is actually a
draft from a month ago.
MS. DE PESA: Okay, but I still like it.
MS. BROWN: It's actually changed since
then.
MS. DE PESA: All right, but it had what I
liked in it. So it's okay.
MS. BROWN: I just wanted to clarify that.
MS. DE PESA: We really want to support
voting. I think that they -- I know you've mentioned to
Jeff about not a lot of people coming out. And one of
the points that I think needs to be made about the School
Board elections in New York City, we do not vote for
money off of bond issues when the School Board elections
are held. All around the state people are affected by
school budgets when they vote for School Board elections.
We don't have that pleasure.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Again, I want to thank
you very much for being here. And just make mention the
fact that two of your successors, Jean, as Presidents of
UPA, Ernest Clayton is a member of this Panel, he had to
leave. And in the back is I.O. Harrington. So I think
you have spawned some excellent successors to the
Presidency of the United Parent Association. We thank
you for being here.
Our next witness is Josette Santana, Ms.
Santana, good evening.
MS. SANTANA: Good evening. I'm here
speaking as a parent and not only as a parent, but as a
PTA President to District 10. I have been very involved
in the school system since my children started Pre-K.
As Assemblyman Dinowitz said, District 10
is one of the largest districts in New York City. Now to
abolish the Community District that we have, I'm sorry,
but I find it kind of appalling. Two things, it's like
we, as parents, we all have as human beings and Americans
we have a Constitutional right. We have a right to
choose what we want in place for our children, who makes
the decisions for our children. And that's basically who
is in our community. And that's the parents and that's
who's running our districts, the people that we can look
up to.
Without our District Office being where
it's at, we have no one to turn to. We can't say the
Mayor himself is going to go to our community and take
the time to see what it is that our community needs or
maybe the Chancellor himself. I mean one person cannot
take care of so many schools and so many districts here
in the city alone. Maybe in Manhattan, close to where
they're at, yes. But in the Bronx, Brooklyn, Queens,
Staten Island, I don't see them making a promise to us
that they're going to take their time to see what it is
that we need.
And we need our district now to say that
they don't need some type of fixing. Yeah, they do.
Nothing is perfect. But as a community, us parents
getting together with our district leaders and working as
a whole, as a team and as a unit, I think we could better
the school systems. But to abolish them, I don't think
that's right.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Okay, we thank you for
that insight based on your experience. Let me see if we
have -- Mr. DeLeon.
MR. DE LEON: Thank you for coming.
MS. SANTANA: I thank you.
MR. DE LEON: What would you put in its
place? Because if you heard Steve earlier, the Chairman
earlier say that the State Legislature has already
abolished the School Boards as we know it. So in light
of your comments, what would you put in its place?
MS. SANTANA: To put in its place, like I
said, I don't feel -- I feel that the district should
stay in its place. I mean we have -- to abolish it, we
could also overturn the abolishment.
MR. DE LEON: Okay, all right, send out
the Carrion call --
MS. SANTANA: Yes.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Ms. Brown?
MS. BROWN: I just have one question. If
you looked at your existing School Board, what one thing
would strengthen the School Board?
MS. SANTANA: The fact that as Dinowitz
said, District 10 is one of the largest districts. But
it's also one of the largest turn outs, when it comes to
parent involvement. We don't have a hundred percent
involvement and I don't think we'll ever in our lives
anywhere will have a hundred percent involvement. But we
had the largest involvement. We have the parents
involved. We educate our parents with the information we
have, and that's as our job as PTA President, or District
Office personnel, that's our job and that's what we've
done. And the only thing that as a parent that I can do,
that I've done already, is become more personal with my
parents, get to know who they are and explain to them
that what's out there and what their rights are.
MS. BROWN: So the information that you
share from your parents is it done through your own
research? Do you get the information from your School
Board? Is it coming from the Superintendent?
MS. SANTANA: It comes from everywhere.
I'm a person that I love knowledge. And I do my
homework. I listen to what they tell me and I use that
and I go and I do my own research. And I go and I give
this information to my parents. That's my job as a PTA
President, and as a parent who is concerned.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Mr. Levin.
MR. LEVIN: Could you help us with your
passion and conviction about parental involvement,
obviously it's successful. How could we make that happen
throughout the system in whatever we're going to
construct? What can we learn from you?
MS. SANTANA: As I said, not just take it
as getting votes, but to become more personal, to get to
know our parents to get to know what their lifestyle is,
what it is they need, be more supportive. Without having
proper support from someone they can trust, you're not
going to have the outcome you're looking for.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Yes, Miss Hill.
MS. HILL: How do you disseminate the
information to the parents?
MS. SANTANA: I have -- we get meetings
together. The District itself holds Community Board
meetings monthly. I have my monthly meetings with my
parents in the schools, twice in that month. I have a
morning session for the parents that don't work and I
make sure I have an evening session for my parents that
do work. One way or another, they do have their
information. If I have information in writing and I have
to make copies, I send it home. One way or another they
do receive their information.
MS. HILL: Do you sent it home with the
students?
MS. SANTANA: Send it home with the
students and the younger children, it's better to -- I
feel sending it by mail.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Well Miss Santana I
must say that -- I'm sure I speak for the entire Task
Force in observing that the parents and the students who
you represent are exceedingly lucky to have you. And if
every school had someone as articulate, passionate, and
intelligent as you obviously are, that would be a pretty
good start to fixing the school system all by itself.
We appreciate your being with us and
sharing your views and making your case.
MS. SANTANA: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Thank you. We have on
the schedule three individuals from Mothers on the Move.
I'm told that two are here now and I'm going to ask those
two to both come forward, Lucretia Jones and Carmen
Maldanado-Santos. And whichever order you would like to
go, please feel free. Just identify yourselves when you
speak for the stenographer.
MS. JONES: Okay, thank you. My name is
Lucretia Jones and I'm going to start with a little
background on Mothers on the Move, just to let you know
why and how we come to the point of the recommendations
we're making.
Okay, so I'm a parent, was a parent in
District 8. I have two children. My daughters --
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: And you're Lucretia
Jones?
MS. JONES: I'm Lucretia Jones.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Right.
MS. JONES: Yes, I am. I have a daughter
who is a freshman now at Brooklyn Tech and my son is
about to graduate from Hunter in June. So I've been
involved in District 8 for some years. I'm also a member
of Mothers on the Move. I was one of the founding
members and I am chair, was chair for ten years, chair
emeritus now.
Mothers on the Move is a grass roots
community based organization in the South Bronx. We're a
member organization. We have over 500 members and we
fight for social justice. We started around education
ten years ago, but when we realized that there were other
things in the neighborhood repeating children learning.
We went into environmental issues and other issues,
housing and all.
But my heart has always been in education
and that's what I'm here to speak to tonight. And I just
want to apologize. I don't have written testimony. I
didn't know we had to need it. I always talk with
bullets. So -- okay, I first got involved I guess about
ten years ago when my son was in I.S. 52, a failing
school is District 8. And even though I consider myself
a very involved parent, when he was in P.S. 130 on the
P.A. Boards and all of that, I didn't really realize how
bad I.S. 52 was.
When he went there, there was no books.
There was no lamps. We didn't have the programs that
other schools, even within our district let alone in the
city had. I was on the P.A. there, but basically parents
were only involved in selling candy and doing things that
the principal needed. And it was at a meeting that
someone handed out a flier, did you know this about your
school? Do you want to know more? And I went to this
group and that's where they were, Mothers on the Move
then. And I found out information and that's one thing
that I was shocked at. That I was so unaware of the
figures. I did not know it was a SURR school. I didn't
realize that there was a cluster of failing schools.
You know, we were always told that it's an
ineffective principal and that's why the kids are not
learning. It's the shelters in the neighborhood. That's
why the children are not doing as well.
But then when you see that you had ten
schools right here in the small community all failing,
you know it has to be something else. You can't blame
the principals. It has to be the leadership. And that's
when we really organized and started going outside to get
the information we need to see what could be done.
Not only did we not have access to
information, but even to get to the schools, a lot of
parents couldn't get to speak to a principal, were not
welcomed in the school, and it was because it came from
the district down at the School Board. So what we
started doing was finding out information. We tried to
meet with the Superintendent, tried to work with the
District, but they really weren't interested. That's why
I mean I'll say I'm glad we're getting rid of the School
Boards because District 8 School Board did not work. It
did not work for parents. It did not work for the
parents or children in the failing schools.
When we would go there, they didn't even
want to meet with us because they felt you're an outside
organization. We're not going to meet with you as a
group. I said I'm a parent. I'm on the P.A. I have a
child in this school and they still didn't want to hear
me. And that's how it was for several years.
So we had to work on things. So we took
it upon ourselves to start looking at what needed change.
So when we realized the power the School Board had, we
knew that it needed to be changed. There were people on
there 20 years with no children in the school. The
Superintendent was there for 20 years and just like
forgot about our area. One thing that we realized and I
hope that changes with whatever structure you set up is
that our district is very large. And it was a mixed
district where you had three distinct communities. Hunts
Point, Longwood Soundview and then Throgs Neck. And you
know it went in different terms of the population and the
economic status of those communities.
So it was really obvious in the beginning
that the schools in the northern section of Throgs Neck
had services that we didn't have. Their reading scores
were higher. And it was actually that the School Board
and the Superintendent allowed this to happen and allowed
it to fail.
So that's why we put pressure on the
School Board to do something and to make changes. And we
were always found to be activists and the School Board
was very decisive. They used to tell the parents in the
other end that they want services and if we give them
what they need, we will not have Pre-K. So they hated
us.
When we would show up at School Board
meetings to talk, there were always issues. So I think
one thing that would be beneficial if smaller, you know,
instead of having those three -- you know one School
Board covering those three areas, having more local
power, you know, for the schools that had something in
common.
And with the School Leadership Teams, I
was also a part of that in my daughter's school. That
happened to be one school that was functioning, P.S. 130,
I was on and the principal was willing to work with us.
So that was good. But most parents and Mothers on the
Move don't have that access. In most schools the parents
are hand picked. They're not elected and that's the
problem. A lot of parents don't know this is here. That
that body was set up and that they could be a part of it.
So it's just defeating. We say yeah, we
have parents. But if these parents are speaking for the
principal and not the voice of the parents of community,
that's an issue.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: I'll need for you to
begin to wrap up so we can go to your other colleagues.
MS. JONES: Okay. So just --
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Five minutes goes by
fast, I know.
MS. JONES: Okay. So I just want to say,
to let you know what we have done to research this.
We're not just coming out the blue with this. I just
highlighted a few points. What we did was go -- you
know, we always organize school visits where we went and
took parents in the schools that didn't work and schools
that worked. So that's how they knew the difference. I
was a part of the State Regents Board Low Performance
School Visiting Team, so I did that with them. And that
was a great working body of principals, State Regents,
and parents. We tried to copy that and we called that
Community School Reviews that District 8 really wouldn't
allow us to come in the schools to do.
We worked on coalitions. We worked -- we
started working with we formed the coalition with the
parents organizing consortium. We worked with the
Community Campaign for Good Schools at NYU. We worked on
the School Board election. We got out to vote one year
and we really turned around and got the numbers out.
We worked with a coalition to -- that
helped get members of our community on the School Board
trying to do everything that would make a change.
Another thing we did was we took parents in '96. I was
one of them. I think it was about eight of us to Chicago
to research their local School Councils. And to see how
they did and tried to bring that back and recommend. And
just some of the highlights -- I mean that was very
empowering, me as a parent, going to see that. And some
of the key points that they had that --
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Try and do this
quickly, please.
MS. JONES: Okay, let me just say my
recommendations. I'm sorry. One of the thing is there
was a majority of School Boards -- the majority were
parents. There were six parents, two community members,
two teachers, one principal. They were elected. They
did it as a general election. They went to the voting
booth. They were held on report card pick up day to
bring out the parents' vote. You got to vote for five
people whether they were School Board or parents.
They also had the power to higher and fire
the principals. They did evaluations annually and the
contract was renewed after four years. They had to come
up so they had that power.
Also they mandated, which I think is
essential here to mandate community members on the Board
and not just make it arbitrary. Me, as a community
member who has a lot of experience, should be allowed to
work on -- in conjunction with the other stakeholder.
But I no longer have children in the district level. So
I think that's very important.
And parents need to have a real voice and
there has to be accountability to the parents or this
will not work.
I'm sorry I took too long.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Thank you. Again, I
know the five minutes goes by fast, but I have to try to
enforce that rule so we can hear everybody. We've got at
least another 20 people tonight.
Carmen Maldanado-Santos.
MS. MALDANADO-SANTOS: Yes, good evening
to the Task Force and I have a written testimony. So
I'll read off of that.
My name is Carmen Maldonado-Santos and I
am a member of the Mothers on the Move and former PTA
President of the New School for Arts and Sciences. I was
PTA President until my son graduated. The New School for
Arts and Sciences had a lot of principals. But the
latest principal we had, she wanted no -- she wanted to
make all the changes without staff or parent input. We
could not be heard at all. Our School Leadership Team
did not work, because we were not allowed to -- nothing
that was done had a consensus.
So, however, from my experience with the
schools, I am now the PTA President of the Multicultural
Magnet School, P.S. 212. I strongly believe that parents
should have a strong voice in the decisions about how
schools run. Failing test scores and safety statistics
are not just numbers to us. These are our children who
are being affected. That's why we need bodies like the
School Leadership Teams. Since they're based at the
school, parents can more effectively get involved int he
decision-making process about how a school should be run.
We want the respect of the principal and
staff letting us know what they are planning to offer our
children within the school facility. School Leadership
Teams have not been run as they should have. They're
supposed to be a place where all the stakeholder at the
school, the principal, the staff, and the parents work
together in collaboration to address the problems in the
school by working with the budget or the school's
educational plan.
However, many principals have been holding
onto the power of these teams, and the legislation has
not been strong enough to prevent this from happening.
From my experience, principals have tried to run over the
School Leadership Teams. They have tried to have parents
there just as a show, while making decisions without a
consensus by all of us. Also parents on the School
Leadership Teams were not given access to information
like test scores and the different committees within the
school. Parents cannot effectively address these issues
at the school without this information. Principals have
not treated parents very well. They have not welcomed
parents into the school.
That's why we've been part of creating
this Parent Organizing Consortium proposal. Our solution
calls for empowering the parents' role in the School
Leadership Teams. This includes giving parents more
meaningful training and writing to legislation asking
them to prohibit principals domination of the teams. It
means guaranteeing parents access to information about a
school. It means giving the teams with a parent majority
the power to evaluate on a yearly basis, hire and make
recommendations to fire a principal, or that they will be
held accountable if it doesn't work.
If a principal doesn't welcome parents,
how will you -- how will she or he entice them to become
involved in schools. Parents will not want to become
involved in a school and that will hurt all the schools.
So, all principals should be held
accountable for that. I think so.
I've sat on a C-30 process that selected
candidates for a principal, but that wasn't enough.
After a principal is hired, they can become totally
different people from the one that we interviewed.
Unless they know that the School Leadership Team has the
power to evaluation and even recommend to terminate them
if they are failing our kids and our schools and not
working with the Team democratically. We want an open
door policy for parents to be able to become part of the
life of the school and get the information they need
about it. Real accountability comes when
all the stakeholder at the school work together. And if
principals have to give up some of their control to share
the power with parents, when the schools improve, it will
be better for everyone, especially our children.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Thank you very much.
Thank you. Did you have testimony, sir? Could you
identify yourself so we have you on the record.
MR. JACKSON: Okay. My name is Kenneth
Jackson. I'm PTA President at CS-214. I'm also Chair of
their School Leadership Team. I've been the Chairperson
of the Leadership Team for the last four years and PTA
President going into three years or so now.
I'm up at the podium with Mothers on the
Move because I've been working with them over the last
month or so trying to help them with their testimony and
put some SLT components together for them. Also within
my own home district, because right now my school belongs
to District 85. But our home district is District 12.
And as you can see from the people that are coming here
to testify tonight, there's no one representing District
12 at all. I went to the district trying to find some
organization in there that was going to respond to the
Task Force from the state and also try to speak with the
City Council who is holding similar hearings through the
Education Committee and I couldn't find none within
District 12. So that gives you a statement of where
their concerns are, knowing they're getting ready to get
put out of business in a few months.
Okay, primarily what I'm here to talk
about is two proposals. The first one deals with School
Leadership Teams as a whole. Since I have a prepared
text, I'll read from it.
With the impending elimination of
Community School Boards slated to occur at the end of
this current school year, it is imperative that the role
of School Leadership Teams is strengthened and properly
empowered to provide parents the means to effectively
help govern the schools their children attend.
Having served on my school's Leadership
Team for the past four years, I am fully acquainted with
the actual limitation of authority and control all SLT's
possess. My first experiences as an SLT member were
quite disheartening because the principal at that time
more or less controlled the agenda and the discussion of
the Team. Since I was new, many basic things regarding
the purpose and mission of the School Leadership Team
were not explained to me nor were training opportunities
provided. The Team met on an ad hoc basis, was given
information on things that the principal had already
initiated in the school.
The other negative experience I
encountered was from the District Level when about a year
later the Team I was on, mostly new members, lost its
allocation because none of the members knew that there
was anything regarding a School Leadership Team budget.
When we found out was primarily three days before the
deadline. And when we tried to spend it, we didn't spend
it and we ended up losing everything, except the stipends
which is mandated out of a separate budget that they had
to pay.
So based on that, I spent that entire
summer and when I came back as the Chair the next year, I
made it my business to pick everybody's brain and to
learn. And when you have to do things on your own, it's
very hard, but it forms a foundation that nobody can move
you off of down the road.
Okay, to continue, when the New York State
Legislature enacted the law establishing School
Leadership teams, it was to be a forum for the parents to
access the educational system at the grass roots level.
However, the School Leadership Teams were never properly
empowered with fiscal authority which is a mandatory must
on a level to effectively impact upon the schools.
My proposals to correct this oversight are
as follows: An addendum to the current law stipulating
that all School Leadership Teams must have parental
majority representation on the Leadership Team. Parents
must Chair the Teams and also serve as the Chief Fiscal
Officer on the Team. Third, comprehensive training must
be mandatory for all Team members on the Leadership Team.
Parents, faculty, administrators, whoever gets on there,
everybody has to be taught about what they need to do.
School Leadership Teams must receive adequate financial
resources to function independent of the Department of
Education, because you can have a body that's supposed to
administer governance and oversight and then they be
holding by their purse strings to the same people they're
looking after, so it's a conflict of interest. Empower
the School Leadership Teams with direct and full
budgetary authority and control of the school's resources
in all related matters. Capital construction, the CEP's,
payment for the staff, everything that goes on within the
school if you're going to have people in there telling
them that they have oversight control that you sit down
and you do a budget, and you must give them the authority
to actually do a budget. And then enact that budget and
stuff.
Direct appointment and approval of school
administrators and all staff that goes within the school,
along with termination recommendation authority. Now I
put termination recommendation authority because I
realize everybody is human and it only takes
personalities to clash when somebody says I want his job
or I want her job. So you have to have -- you can
recommend, but I don't believe the SLT's at the local
level should have the power to terminate without moving
it one step outside the doors of that school in order for
it to be fair and equitable.
Finally, the appointment of elected SLT
members to a position on a District Level, School
Leadership Council that will deal with regional borough
wide issues that cannot be resolved at the local school
level.
That's the first proposal for the School
Leadership Teams.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Mr. Jackson, I'll have
to ask you to summarize the conclusions of the page
entitled Proposed Community School Board Replacement so
we'll have some time for questions.
MR. JACKSON: Okay, briefly what I foresee
is that when you dismantle the School Boards the way they
are right now, when the School Boards were put in place
originally, 32 were created or -- they asked for 64.
They got 32, but originally if you look at it, New York
City system needs something larger. My proposal is to
break the school system down, cluster schools to form a
partnership, a sisterhood if you will and the way I've
broken it down is you would have at least four elementary
schools in that cluster community zone that would go from
Pre-K through the fifth grade. You would have at least
two or three combination schools that would go from Pre-K
through eighth grade. You would have four middle schools
that would go from the sixth grade through the eighth
grade and at last four high schools, three of them are
academic and one would be technical or vocational and
stuff for those people that don't want to go the academic
route.
Now for all of that to work, they would
have to be partnered with at least six colleges within
their areas, two community colleges, one city university
college, one state university college, one private
foundation, and also at least two or three technical or
trade schools for those people again that do not want to
go into academia, but want to do something else with
their life.
Now if you take that up I believe 12 to 15
schools are small enough to be governable. They can
share the resources. They would have a shared
curriculum, and if they have student disciplinary
problems, it would serve as an avenue where they could
pick a student up, move him to a sister school with the
background and the knowledge they put him in a new
environment, that child will straighten out. And if the
schools are interconnected and interrelated, serving the
same extended family community, they are not going to be
fighting over resources, because the resources coming in
are going to be shared. All of them are going to be on
the same page as they operate and it's small enough again
where they're manageable.
Now each of them will have a School
Leadership Team in place and members from the School
Leadership Team will serve on a district level,
Leadership Council if you will. That would also extend
and include people from the community base organization,
the business community, et cetera. And the other thing
that I envision is if you take it one step higher and put
it on a borough wide level. This way you can bring in
professionals from academia, from the business community,
and from other places around the city and have them serve
as an Advisory Panel and help guide the leadership
councils who in turn would help advise and direct and
make sure the Leadership Teams inside the schools are
receiving the training and functioning properly.
MR. JACKSON: One of the failures of the
modern Community School Board, they're too big. They're
trying to manage something that they're not equipped to
manage. Okay, I'll take whatever questions you have.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Okay, well let me first
of all thank the three of you individually and
collectively for what was very thoughtful and very
substantive testimony and we probably could have spent
the whole night just talking with the three of you, but
we can't afford to that, although we probably would have
liked to.
Let me see if we have a couple of
questions, brief if we can. Miss Brown?
MS. BROWN: I just have one question. In
your model for replacement of Community School Boards,
would there still be a need for a Superintendent and what
role would that Superintendent play?
MR. JACKSON: Well in part of my component
the Superintendent and stuff would function at the
borough level with that Advisory Panel, with the business
community, the professors and academics that you would
have on there. And they could serve to make sure that
the guidelines educationally are in compliance for
whatever it is the state law says they're supposed to be.
They could also act as a review for the standardized
tests that are going to go on within that borough.
On the smaller level with the Leadership
Councils, you could have Deputy Superintendents that
would be there again in a supportive role ensuring that
the Department of Education is just not turning over the
school system to people that don't know or have an idea
of how to run it.
So there is a need for bureaucrats. But
how you utilize them must be specified and it must be
direct so that they don't take over your life. And then
before you know it, instead of doing what they're
supposed to do, they're counting beans, crossing T's,
looking for pencils on floors and corners and all this
other nonsense.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Assemblyman Rivera.
ASSEMBLYMAN RIVERA: Yeah, question to Ms.
Jones. Ms. Jones you testified earlier that you were
unaware that the school that you were involved in was not
achieving. And that not only the school you were
involved in was not achieving, but there was a cluster of
schools that were also not achieving. Why do you think
you were not made aware of that? Why do you think you
didn't have that kind of information?
MS. JONES: Well because the principal --
I mean there was never -- you know, parents were never
notified of that. And I, myself, because I was lucky.
My children were in the gifted and talented program,
which meant nothing because they were gifted in that
school. But when they went to high school, they were
really failing, because what they gave a gifted program
was nothing on the level of a regular program in most
schools. So I didn't realize until I started saying well
what do you mean you have Spanish homework and you don't
have a Spanish book. I started investigating and
realized. But honestly I never knew that this school had
only 28 percent of the students reading at grade level
and it's been like that for years. And I was not aware
of that. And that was the middle school.
ASSEMBLYMAN RIVERA: Do you think that
that's true overall, that most parents are unaware?
MS. JONES: Yes.
ASSEMBLYMAN RIVERA: Particularly parents
that schools that are unachieving that they're unaware
that their particular schools are not achieving to --
MS. JONES: Yeah, you -- and what's really
shocking is -- because that was like I said ten years
ago. If you ask a parent, parents don't realize.
They'll say, what do you mean a SURR school. A lot of
parents don't understand that. And it's shocking because
now schools have to notify and send letters home. I
don't think it was like that when my child was in. The
letters don't go home. Do you know how many parents have
not received notice in the school, they don't get
information about the after school tutoring. So no, they
don't know, unless -- you know that's why we do reach out
and talk to parents.
I mean I was shocked when I saw this list.
It was so amazing, the fact sheets of how many students
in the school are reading at this level in this school,
that school. And I was embarrassed that I, an educated,
knowledgeable, involved parent did not know this.
And that's why I got so involved and still
am.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Well we want to thank
the three of you very much. I know that you represent
thousands of other individuals who are part of Mothers on
the Move. We, as members of the Task Force are familiar
with your work. Mr. Jackson we are very grateful that
you joined this Panel and gave us your insight with
respect to School Leadership Teams as well as the School
Boards, and I can assure you that your first hand, every
day experiences are very important to us. And we are
very grateful you took the time to testify tonight.
Thank you.
MR. JACKSON: Thank you.
MS. JONES: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: There were four
students who indicated when they arrived that they wanted
to give some testimony to this Task Force. I don't know
if they are still here, but I'm going to call their names
and I'd like the four of them if they are here to please
come up together as a group at this table.
Elizabeth Sanchez, is Elizabeth Sanchez
still here? No. Anna Gonzalez? Bethsida Costillo?
Mendez Rossi? No. Well we are sorry that they could not
stay.
Okay. Is Mr. Ted Weinstein still here,
Executive Vice President for Community School Board #10.
MR. WEINSTEIN: I thought I was going to
close out the night, thank you.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Let me just advise the
audience some who have arrived after we began, that we
are endeavoring very hard to keep the testimony to about
five minutes so that we can allow for the maximum
participation from everybody in the room tonight.
Mr. Weinstein.
MR. WEINSTEIN: Thank you very much,
Assemblyman Sanders and Rivera, those of you I know and
those of you I don't know. I greatly appreciate the
opportunity to be here tonight. I'm sorry, I don't have
a prepared statement. I find I generally try to come
across best when I just speak what I feel. I also have a
cough, so I'll try not to cough into the mic too much.
I'll try not to be too repetitive of what
you already heard. But I came tonight to speak mainly
about the importance of community involvement. I don't
have any illusions to think that come next July that
Community School Boards in New York City will exist as
they currently do.
But I do come to ask that there continue
to be some type of a community involvement. I'm who
believes very strongly that this is a service, a very
important government service that is important to
everybody and should be important to everybody. It's
important not just -- you know we talk about community.
Community is really society on a local level. And
therefore, if children can be adequately educated to then
go out and participate in our society, there can't be
anything more important than that. And it's important
for our society as a whole, and at the local level, it's
important to our communities.
And I think having people from the
communities involved in that and having their input is
extremely important. I guess I should start off by
saying I am now the Executive Vice President of Community
School Board 10. I've been a member of the School Board
for eight and half years. Originally I was selected by
the School Board to fill a vacancy. It was the vacancy
when Sandra Learner became a member of the Central Board
and then I was elected in 1996 and 1999 in the elections.
I have found particularly in the last few
years that we have been a School Board that has taken our
role very seriously. When a number of the powers were
reduced, such as involved with personnel which was fine
with me, it made easy when people didn't have to keep
coming to me with resumes. We concentrated on our role.
Our role is to help determine educational policy in our
area. And if it wasn't for our School Board, our
Community School Board, we wouldn't have had a number of
the things that are going on now.
We now have gifted and talented programs.
That would not have happened without us. We've done --
tried to do an analysis, bilingual programs. That was
not going to happen. We have asked Central Board for
information that normally was not being given out.
We have done these things and we think we
have made a difference. We have worked with our
Superintendent, sometimes we disagree, very strongly, but
we work because we all have the same goal.
We have taken the district Compliance
Educational Plan which we have to do. We take that very
seriously. You know some may think that this is
something that's prepared by the administration of the
district and then the School Board rubber stamps it. A
lot of our CEP comes from the Board itself. We go over
it.
Our president will be speaking tonight and
he'll go into more detail about that. We have become
known for an analysis of the math curriculum that we
continue to do now. There is a math curriculum that is
used in our district and parts of the city that parents
were complaining to us. They didn't feel that it was
adequate. They didn't feel it was teaching basic skills.
We've done our research on that. We've
had hearings. We've had meetings. We've had people come
and talk about it. And we have then set the policy for
the District to not just use a math curriculum that
hundreds of Nobel Prize winners and other prize winners
have said is not useful.
And so we have taken our role very
seriously. And it's the people from the community who
have put us there to do that. I mean listen, one of the
questions earlier was about how do we -- how does the
School Board hear from the community. One of the things
that we do is we have our monthly meetings at different
schools. Every month we rotate around the district. And
so therefore we make ourselves available to the entire
district.
And so each month we go and we sit up at a
dias and we do our business and we listen to what people
have to say. We do -- and I'm not sure that most School
Boards do this. We do a role call of every school in the
district. And as you've already heard tonight, District
10 is the largest school district in the city. That's a
lot of schools. And we'll sit there and we'll listen to
the people who represent the parent associations of those
schools, come up and tell us about their issues and their
problems.
As far as community members, you know the
custom of the system, and someone said something earlier
about the custom of the system, the custom of the system
is the student, the child. That's who has to benefit
from this. And without question obviously a five year
old cannot represent themselves in terms of fighting for
the system, fighting for what they get, for what they
deserve, and so the parents do that.
But it's so important to have community
people involved, because you do bring an expertise. You
bring a caring to the system that isn't otherwise there.
Those of us who have been involved in School Boards and
elections know that when you go around, you're constantly
being told by people oh, I don't have kids in the
schools. It doesn't affect me.
Well as I've already said, good effective
schools, good effective education, affects our entire
society. And to have people from the community involved
is very important. If it wasn't for -- you go to that
community members, we wouldn't be able to have
educational professionals on our Board.
And I'll just talk about my Board. Like
we had a Sandra Learner. We had a Rose McKenna, who we
didn't always necessarily agree on everything, but she
brought an expertise and a class to the Board that I
appreciated her being there all the time.
We currently have someone who is the
Chairman of a college math and computer science
department. Myself, my children were in the public
school system in my district. At the point that they
left, they're now in college, but at the point that they
left, I didn't forget what it's like to be a parent. I
didn't forget what was important.
I started off in the school, but actually
it was the same month that they were leaving the local
district. The ability to have people who can bring a
knowledge, bring something to the system, and of the nine
of us, I should say four of us do currently have children
in our local schools. And then there are others, like I
said, who had parents in the system at different times,
and there were those who have younger children who are
there because they want to help improve the schools. So
that when their children reach that age, the schools will
be able to serve them as well.
So again, I don't want to be too
repetitive of other things that you've heard or will
hear, but the importance of a community involvement is
something that I think I have seen over these years.
This is my ninth year now on the Board and I think that
we have made a difference and I know there are things
that would not be going on in our district if it wasn't
for the fact that we had a Community School Board.
You've heard about high schools. We have
two schools that are in the process of becoming middle
school, high schools. That would not have happened if it
wasn't for having a Community School Board. So I'm
actually very proud of what we've done and it's not for
me personally. I mean it comes next July, if it's not me
and it's someone else, that's fine. But I think that
it's very important.
One of the things that I've tried to push
over the years as well are an involvement of schools with
the merchant association in the area, creation of alumni
associations for people from the community who went to
the schools to contribute. A lot of these things can be
done, as long as in the end, schools identify with their
communities and the communities identify with their
schools. The schools can only benefit by doing that.
And without in any way reducing the
importance of parental involvement, again, I'm a parent.
One of the things I was a little sorry about in being on
the School Board is that it took away my time to be
involved in my own children's schools. But I think it's
just so important to have as many good people as
possible, and people who want to give the time and are
willing to give the time and to bring that kind of
passion and expertise to the Boards. And I would just
hope that the recommendation of the Task Force is to
continue some type of a community involvement.
And I'll be happy to answer any questions.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Thank you very much.
Mr. Friedman.
MR. FRIEDMAN: Hi Ted, how are you?
MR. WEINSTEIN: Hi, Jack.
MR. FRIEDMAN: We've heard testimony from
other parts of the city regarding School Boards as their
currently constituted and the fact that some of the
school districts are having difficulties with their
superintendents because they no longer have a valuative
role in the hiring or the retaining of the
superintendent. And also there's been talk that it's
very difficult to separate educational policy from
budget.
Since we're now being charged with making
a recommendation to revamp this whole thing over again,
are there any things that current School Boards cannot do
which maybe they used to do, or current things they do
that you wouldn't want them to do. How would you revamp
a new district leadership council, District School Board?
Which powers would you retain and which powers might you
add back?
MR. WEINSTEIN: I'm satisfied not having
us involved in actual administration. I think that we
have enough to do and we don't even find enough time to
do all the evaluation of educational policy that we would
like. Again, I talk about how we spent time on the math
curriculum. A few years ago we spent time on the reading
curriculum.
We had a big debate on our Board about
whole language versus phonics. You know things like
that, the gifted and talented programs knowing that we're
trying to get more of our children to be able to go into
the specialized high schools. Where a District that was
once the highest sender of children to the specialized
high schools in the city and we're no longer so.
I'm and maybe this is my own personal
bent, but I'm personally happy focusing on educational
policy, and working with the superintend to have her and
her administration carry out those policies that we come
up with. And we -- we're a Board that has over the years
disagreed with our superintendent very often. And yet we
appreciate her efforts, the time that she puts in and her
staff. And we usually try to work something out. And
there have been very strong disagreements on policy. And
usually when it's up, there's some kind of compromise as
to what is best, you know serving the benefit of the
children, the purpose of the children. What can you do
that serves the children in terms of different types of
viewpoints.
Very often it's not one extreme or the
other. It's some type of balance.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Well Mr. Weinstein, we
thank you very much. In fact we're going to call up now
your President and I'm sure he will fill in whatever
things you may have missed. Although I don't think you
missed too much, Mr. Weinstein. Thank you very much for
being here.
Before I call Mr. Cordell Schachter, let
me just -- just so the folks will know they're on deck.
We're going to have a Panel of four individuals after Mr.
Schachter from the Parent Organizing Consortium
consisting of Francis Calderon, Silky Martinez, Oswald
White and Jessie MacDonald. So you want to just be ready
to come up in a moment.
And now we will hear from Cordell
Schachter, who is the President of Community School Board
10.
MR. SCHACHTER: Thank you very much.
Greetings from Community School Board 10, Co-Chair
Assemblyman Sanders, Assemblyman Rivera and other
distinguished members of the Panel.
It gives me great pleasure to address you
tonight and to describe our vision of reforms to current
Community School Board election and practices that we
believe will improve the quality of education in New York
City.
Our District, as you know, is the largest
in the city, one of the largest in New York State,
educating over 44,000 students in 53 schools from
Pre-Kindergarten through high school.
Most community school districts do not
over see high schools. Among Community School Board 10's
recent reforms and initiatives were the creation of two
middle school high schools to serve grades six through
twelve.
Tonight I'd like to share with you our
process recommendations for improving the election of
Community School Board to New York City. We believe
these procedures will improve the quality of Community
School Boards by increasing their accountability to
parents and their local communities. I'll read the
resolution of the board that we passed at our November
21st public meeting that followed a public hearing at
which members of the public overwhelming supported
popularly elected Community School Boards.
I'll then concludes with three important
reasons to preserve popular elected Community School
Boards in New York City. Our resolution is entitled No
Public Education Without Elected Representation.
Maintain Elected Community School Boards in New York
City.
Whereas the community served by Community
School Board 10 spoke at a public hearing on October 24,
2002 on the subject of the future of parent and community
participation in the creation of policy and plans for
public education in New York City, and
WHEREAS, the speakers at this hearing
overwhelmingly supported the continuation of elected
representation int he creation of policy and plans in New
York City public education, and
WHEREAS, Community School Board 10 has
shown that an elected community school board can made
significant positive contributions to educational policy
making and planning within its district, and
WHEREAS, the members of Community School
Board 10 understand that changes must be made to improve
the functioning of elected community representation in
New York City public education, and
WHEREAS, Community School District 10 is
the largest in the city and its size makes it more
difficult for individual parents or parent associations
to impact district policy, and
WHEREAS, Community School Board 10
believes that school boards overseeing smaller districts
with boundaries that match groups of existing
neighborhoods would provide more effective representation
to their constituent, now therefore
BE IT RESOLVED, that Community School
board 10 adopts the following recommendations for future
goals and structure for community school boards in New
York City and urges the New York Sate Legislature to
adopt them as well:
1.) The currently eligible voters with a
community school district would popularly elect Community
School Board members in a non-partisan manner in November
every two years, concurrent with elections for New York
State Legislature. The Community School Board candidates
with the nine great numbers of votes should comprise the
Community School Board for the following two years.
2.) There should be one Community School
Board and one Community Superintendent in each community
school district. Community School Board 10 urges the
Chancellor, Mayor, and state legislature to reduce the
size of District 10 and also equalize the size of all New
York City community school districts.
3.) Community School Boards should have
the responsibility of setting local district educational
zoning, and new construction/leasing policy consistent
with current New York State law and should continue with
the current practice of contributing to and approving the
District Comprehensive Educational Plan.
4.) Community School Boards should
participate in the process that decides to retain or
recruit new community superintendents. Community School
Boards should make recommendations to the chancellor who
now has sole authority over the community superintendents
according to the new New York State law.
5.) Community School Boards should meet
at least monthly, be governed by open meeting laws, and
provide the general public the opportunity to participate
in, view, debate and discuss the establishment or
changing of district educational policy consistent with
current law and practice.
Our explanation. Past proportional voting
every three years in May has produced Community School
Boards comprised in many cases of members representing
special interests instead of the general interest and the
common good. Broadly conducted popular elections held in
November along with state legislative elections should
confer an additional degree of legitimacy on Community
School Boards and increase public interest and
participation including that from minority communities
proportional voting was meant to facilitate. These
changes and the preservation of the Community School
Boards policy making responsibilities should improve
public participation in the process of education New York
City's 1,000,000 school children.
In conclusion, I'd like to summarize three
important reasons to preserve elected Community School
Boards in New York City. They fist nicely into the
acronym: AIM.
First, preserving elected community school
boards preserves Accountability to Parents. Children now
in our system have no time to wait for grand plans to be
formed and implemented. Direct popular election of
community school board members presents the most
effective means of parents influencing the plans,
policies and practices that impact their children now.
Second, preserving elected community
school boards preserved Involvement with the Local
Community. Public education needs broad based support to
achieve priority treatment among other competing civic
interests. Since on 20 percent of the population has
children in the public system at any given time, direct
public election of community school board members
supports the participation of local community members and
keeps the system engaged in providing students ready for
higher education and careers.
Third, preserving elected community school
boards preserves an educational Marketplace of Ideas. No
mayor, chancellor, board or department of education will
ever have all the answers to satisfying all the needs of
New York City's 1 million school children in over 1,000
schools. A vibrant exchange of information and rigorous
debate is absolutely necessary to ensure that the system
implements only the bet ideas, policies, and practices.
The need for an educational Marketplace of Ideas is now
especially acute to balance the Mayor's new, broad powers
to control public education in New York City.
Thank you very much for this opportunity
to present our resolution and my views supporting the
preservation of popularly elected community school boards
in New York City.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Mr. Schachter we
certainly thank you and your other colleagues from
District 10 who have been here today and tonight. Let me
see if we may have a question or two for you.
I think between you and Mr. Weinstein in
the last few minutes you've covered the area very well.
I would only observe that I find it very interesting,
something you may already know. That the next largest
school district in the entire state after Community
School District 10, is in fact the entire New York City
school district and the third largest district, the one
just smaller than yours, is Buffalo.
MR. SCHACHTER: Right.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: So you have managed a
very large responsibility and obviously we understand why
your testimony will suggest we ought to make the school
districts smaller in New York City and a little more
equal.
Thank you very much.
MR. SCHACHTER: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: I'd like to mention I
was remiss a few minutes ago. We were joined a little
while ago by Assemblywoman Audrey Pheffer from Queens.
She was here for all of the day and returned this
evening. Welcome back Audrey and just for all of your
edification, the Co-Chair of this Task Force, Terri
Thomson who had some shoulder surgery yesterday has been
listening to these proceedings. We have her hooked up by
telephone right to her bedside. So she is listening to
this testimony, even though she is taking some Motrin, I
imagine. She's a trooper.
We have four individuals that I will now
call up from the Parent Organizing Consortium, Francis
Calderon, Silky Martinez, Oswald White, Jessie MacDonald.
I will ask you to testify in whatever order you would
like to. Just try to confine your individual remarks to
no more than five minutes and as you begin your
testimony, just identify yourself so our reporter will
know who is speaking and when.
MS. MARTINEZ: Okay, good evening. First
I would like to introduce the Parent Organizing
Consortium and the POC as a citywide coalition of
community organizations that work in low performing and
low income schools in districts in New York City. We are
representatives of the Bronx based POC groups including
Mothers on the Move, Neighbors in Highbridge, New
Settlement Apartments, and the Northwest Bronx Community
and Clergy Coalition.
My name is Silky Martinez from Mothers on
the Move, and Parent Organizing Consortium.
MS. CALDERON: Good evening. My name is
Francis Calderon. I'm a member of Neighbors in
Highbridge and also part of POC. Basically I have
written what I'm going to read off to the Panel. It's
our Principals in Action, a proposal based on School
Leadership Teams with real democracy and accountability
and power.
Parent Participation: School Leadership
Teams meetings must be well publicized and open to the
public. The meeting schedules should be sent by mail to
all parents with children in the schools.
The SLT's should continue to create and
approve the Comprehensive Education Plan (the CEP) and
school budget. The SLT's should also approve all Title I
expenditures.
CEP's and school budgets must be readily
available for all parents with children in the school.
Parents should have a voting majority on
SLT's.
And at least one seat on the SLT's should
be reserved for representative from the community.
SLT meetings should be held after 6:00
P.M. so that working parents are able to attend.
A part time staff person should be
assigned to each SLT to ensure communication and parent
participation.
Also Elections: All parents with children
in the school must be sent information by mail about how
to run for a seat ont he SLT at least 90 days before the
election.
SLT elections should be held annually.
SLT elections must be widely publicized by
mail at least 30 days in advance.
Once selected, all SLT members should be
required to attend SLT trainings.
Holding the Principal Accountable: All
candidates for principal must be approved by the SLT.
The SLT should conduct an annual
evaluation of the principal, actively soliciting input
from all parents with children in the school.
SLT's should have the power to hire or
fire the principals of the schools.
Holding the SLT's Accountable: An
independent oversight mechanism with parent
representation should be implemented to ensure that SLT's
are established and run in accordance with regulations.
The superintendent should hold monthly
public meetings in the district to provide parents and
community members with a public forum for school related
concerns that are not being addressed by the SLT's.
Also, from the Principles of School
Governance Reforms, point three where there must be a
decisive parent and community role in hiring and firing
schools superintendents and principals. Thank you.
MS. MARTINEZ: Good evening ladies and
gentlemen. Once again, my name is Silky Martinez and I
will be presenting my testimony this evening.
My name is Silky Martinez and I am a
member of Mothers on the Move. Mothers on the Move is a
membership based social justice community group in the
South Bronx and it is a member organization of the Parent
Organizing Consortium. Our members come from Districts
7, 8, 9, and 12, where 52 of our schools are failing
thousands of children. I've lived int he Bronx for 18
years, and I was educated in District 12 in the Bronx.
My daughter will be old enough to go to school in 2005 in
the South Bronx and that's why I'm involved now to
improve schools. Back when I was in school, parents were
welcomed into schools. This was good for the schools
because parents were able to help supervise the kids'
activities and help teachers, since the schools were
overcrowded. Back then, the principals were more
accepting of releasing information to parents about the
schools.
But now true parent involvement is
discouraged by the schools now, especially in low income
communities of color where we're not being allowed to sit
at the table to make governance decisions. As a member
of Mothers on the Move for the past two years, I've seen
the struggle of the MOMs members who have kids in public
schools who are near us. In our own neighborhood, where
the schools are failing, parents are being kept out of
the schools and not being given information on how the
schools are doing, and what opportunities are open to
parents for being involved in improving their schools.
With Mothers on the Move, I visited other schools to
compare them to schools in our neighborhood. We were
actually surprised to see that these good schools
actually welcomed parents.
That's why as members of the Parent
Organizing Consortium we have a proposal to strengthen
parent leadership on the School Leadership Teams. The
School Leadership Teams where the parent leadership is
strong and are able to bring meaningful changes to their
schools, because they're at the school and they get to
make decisions about the school's educational plan and
its budget. However, most School Leadership Teams in our
area are governed by the principal and staff because they
pick and choose parents they want on the leadership team
and they're obligated to say yes to their decisions and
proposals. Parents on the School Leadership Teams are
not being informed that they have the right to say no to
the proposals and to speak their mind about problems at
the school.
That's why we're calling for these two now
powers of parents and community members that will
counterbalance the power of our school staff. Our
proposals call for making parents the voting majority on
School Leadership Teams. Our proposal also --
MS. MARTINEZ: -- calls for giving School
Leadership Teams the power to hire and fire and evaluate
the principal. We are also calling for a role for
community members on the School Leadership Teams. I have
a two year old daughter who will be entering school in a
couple of years, and what's going on in the schools is my
business too. There's no reason why I shouldn't be
involved. I want the schools to improve Now so that my
daughter can have a fair chance when they enters school.
As I said, I am struggling with the system
because I am worried that there won't be too much
improvement in the schools when my daughter enters school
in two years, unless you take the advantage of this
opportunity to create a new school governing structure
that gives parents and community members decision making
power. That way parents and concerned community members
like me are committed to improving schools, can have the
powers to work in our local schools to find ways to make
them better.
We parents are tired of being told to be
involved and then we don't have the power or information
to make decisions about our children's schools and we
want to be heard now.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Thank you.
MR. WHITE: Good evening ladies and
gentlemen. My name is Oswald White. I'm a member of the
Parent Action Committee, the collaboration to improve the
schools in District 9 and the PLC, a few other
organizations which I don't think I should have to name.
I'm here tonight to make a little
testimony from personal observations and personal
dealings, and I hope nobody will become offended.
My subject is principals. I've had a lot
of dealings with principals. I've had a lot of good
things, a lot of bad things. The bad things out number
the good.
I've sat here tonight and listened to
people blow their horns, which is okay. Everybody wants
to get their thing across. But principals are the key to
all good schools. All good schools. This is a proven
fact verified by personal observation, research and what
statistics show.
During the years that I have been working
with children and working in the capacity of a child
educational advocate, I have observed that those schools
with good leadership that show accountability are those
schools that work well from the top down, especially in
the instances where there is no outside interference. My
reason for this last statement is based on personal
observation as I said before, having to do with my own
children in more than one school in the Bronx, in
District 9. Not wanting to embarrass anybody, I want to
leave the names of the schools unannounced. Unless it
becomes extremely necessary for me to name them.
Having on occasion questioned principals
as to why teachers were not in their classroom as they
ought to have been or to have questioned why teachers
were arguing loudly in the halls pointing out that they
are not setting a good example, on those instances there
seem to have been a stock answer. And that answer was
things aren't what they used to be. We can't do what we
want to do.
There's a message in there. I hope
everybody gets it. And when I pointed out that this is
your school and you set the tone, the answer was we still
cannot do what we want to do. We still have to follow
orders.
Well what kind of order is it that keeps a
principal from being innovative, from keeping order in
his school, and keeping his teachers in line? What kind
of orders are these? Where do they come from?
I have never forgotten it and I won't
forget it. This told me that the principals were not the
true leaders of their schools. Now I don't know about
every school, because I can't speak for every school, but
I could speak for those schools that I have dealt with,
and they all seem to be in District 9.
They are not allowed to run the schools in
the manner that would maintain order both among pupils
and the teaching staff, but are stymied by some higher
force.
What we propose here today, is that those
higher forces work with the parents to help the
principals, because the parents know what they want for
their children. They want a sensitive principal.
Principals being the key to all good schools as I stated
earlier should be monitored, well chosen, and principals
should be evaluated, mentored and given the proper tools,
whether they be in writing, oral, or mechanical to do
their job properly.
Distributed through out the audience is a
proposal gathered by the POC, based on things that are
known to work throughout the country and other
communities. This proposal calls for parents to have the
voting majority in School Leadership Teams that all
candidates for principals be approved by the School
Leadership Teams. That School Leadership Teams conduct
an annual evaluation of the principal, actively influence
the hiring, or the firing of the principals of any school
since the new School Leadership Teams will be made up of
parents and concerned community members.
I will end this little short testimony by
stating that in the future or even starting now, let us
no longer settle for good. For good is not enough. It's
not good enough, when there's better, better, best and
excellent to be had.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Thank you.
MS. MC DONALD: Good evening. My name is
Jessie McDonald and I'm from Mothers on the Move and I'm
here as a parent also. And I'm just going to like
conclude what every parent has said here tonight. And
that's about parents today, we want some type of
stakehold, some type of power in decision making for our
children.
Now everything you hear tonight is team
leadership. And I'm for team leadership also. Because
that's all we have. That's the only thing parents have
that you have some type of stakehold that you feel you
have. I know in the team leadership that I was in, that
made me feel like I was a stakeholder in my child's
school. And the reason because of that, it was a great
school team leadership. The principal allocated the
budget. We was a part of the budget. For each parent,
there was a staff. Then also there was a high school so
we had students there also who made the greatest
decisions. Because they knew what they wanted and we
listened to them. And money that was in the budget was
allocated to some of those things that the students
bought out, such as like -- it was a portfolio school.
And the children needed time to help to get portfolios
and how to write portfolios because they wasn't really
used to this type of curriculum.
The principal wrote a grant. We got the
money. We got three hundred thousand and what we did, we
set up after school, but we had to share it with another
school. We set up the after school program that it was
recommended through the students though. But I'm saying
if you have a good team leadership, it would work
perfect, because it did.
But then at the same time, you could have
a team leadership coming out of the PTA that's hand
picked and information just given to the principal and
parents don't have no clue. Because I heard one person
testimony said that the first year that he was there, he
was just going along with what the principal say, which
is true. You do go along with what the principal say.
They send you letters to come to team
leadership workshops which is down at Long Island City,
which is hard for parents that are working, parents that
are single, for that time of night to travel from the
Bronx, Brooklyn, or Queens to get to these places for
these workshops. So that's like left information for the
parents.
I think in order to get more parents to
cooperate with these programs and team leadership is to
give us more information. Most parents here tonight say
they research their own information, which is sad. That
as a parent we have to go out and research information
that should be a given to us and our children.
So I'm trying to express that we want
power. I heard tonight that the principals, we should be
able to evaluate the principals and have a part in that
firing process is there's one. It don't make any sense
to have a principal -- we set up this evaluation program
and once we evaluate them, they stay there.
We have failing schools in South Bronx for
years. Schools have been SURR schools for five, six,
seven years and they changed the school, they changed the
principal and the business is usual.
Therefore parents need -- because we know
what we need in our school. And I think if you give
parents the power, you know, if you give parents power,
that we can bring other parents in. Parents are so
intimidating. This is years of intimidation that these
parents has taken, so they're afraid to go in the
schools. I heard someone mention tonight we have a lot
of immigrants. If they don't do what some of these
teachers, they threaten them with the BCW and things for
their children. So this draws parents away from the
schools.
In stead of bringing parents to school, we
have to set it up to get parents real power, voting
power. We had the School Board election. We knew the
School Board election didn't work, as the way -- like one
of your members mentioned earlier about the School Board
election and the School Board itself and the way it was
ran. We have actually parents witness School Board
meetings and try to ask the other why are our schools
failing and the school in another apartment, same
district that's doing so well, everybody would have
probably got up, walked out and laughed at us.
How do we feel as parents? How many
parents did we lose because they said we're not going to
get nowhere. So I'm here tonight to express the only
thing why you head so much team leadership, team
leadership, that's all we have. That's all we have that
what we see we have power. PTA is no power. PTA is
selling cookies, doing what the principal allocate us to
do.
So we come tonight and I'm stressing this,
and I think that if it's going to be a new school
governance, parents must be involved. You must give us
power, some type of power so we could feel like we have
investment in our children's school. Like I said, I felt
like that. And I work hard in the school. And my
daughter work hard and she moved on. She graduated and
she moved on to college now.
And then give them an insight. If they
could see their parents are people really interested,
because so many of our children is lost, because they
think no one's interested.
But if you go in a school land you get
turned out, how could we? So we ask them please, let
want more voting power. We want accountability of these
principals and superintendents. We want to be able to be
in voting power. And if they not doing their job right,
they shouldn't stay in that position. They shouldn't
fail our kids for no longer. They failed for years.
That's long enough. That's it.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Well we thank you very
much. Before I ask if there are any questions, I just
want to briefly observe that in my time and capacity as
Chairman of the Assembly Education Committee, I've had a
number of opportunities to talk with members of the
Parent Organizing Consortium on many occasions, both in
New York City and at times when you've been gracious
enough to come up to Albany and talk to myself and
Assemblyman Rivera and Audrey Pheffer. And as always, I
have found your ideas to be very well rooted in important
experiences that really only parents can understand as
they try to navigate through the education system.
So we appreciate you all being here this
evening and giving us the benefit of your insight.
Let me see if we may have a question or
two. Ms. Brown?
MS. BROWN: You mentioned that you were a
part of your School Leadership Team. We you elected
through your P.A.?
MS. MC DONALD: Yes, I was already in a
PTA and that's basically what happens. I'm sorry, let me
elaborate on that. Basically the reason that happened
because parents really don't have no clue what team
leadership is. So basically through the PTA, that's
usually where they pull their people out of. Now if they
gave more parents information, maybe they might be
interested. Because you don't have to be a PTA member to
join the team leadership.
MS. BROWN: But you were elected from a
PTA membership meeting to sit on a School Leadership
Teams?
MS. MC DONALD: I was appointed. Not
elected.
MS. BROWN: Oh, you were appointed to your
school --
MS. MC DONALD: Yes.
MS. CALDERON: That's why we're here. We
don't want that to happen again.
MS. BROWN: Okay. And then you mentioned
that the schools are low performing. Is that a function
of people just not knowing what to do to move children
forward? Or is it a function of School Board not
monitoring the superintend and the plan the
superintendent had for the district?
MS. MC DONALD: That's it. That's it.
That's what I believe it is. Because it couldn't be the
parents, because the parents -- if we don't know the
information, how could be -- if we can't get in the
school door, if we can't even go to the District and get
the information, how are we going to hep our children.
We can't get there. It seems like a cliche but it's the
truth.
You go in some schools you're not passing
the door, and especially if they found out you're a
community organizing groups. Forget about it.
MS. BROWN: Just one final question. Did
you also think that maybe the School Board was not
equipped with the information that they needed to ask?
MS. MC DONALD: Yes, they had it. They
just didn't give it out. And if they give it out, they
give it out the last minute.
MR. WHITE: Like the day before the event.
MS. MARTINEZ: Exactly the day before the
event. If we're luck maybe four hours before. If they
really want to be gracious and just even let us know.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Miss Wylde and the Mr.
DeLeon.
MS. WYLDE: If you thought your children
were getting a good education, would you still want this
power?
MS. MC DONALD: Yes, of course.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Mr. DeLeon?
MR. DE LEON: Mr. White, you illuded to
something about outside power interfering with principals
doing their job. Do you want to elaborate a little more
on that?
MR. WHITE: Why sure. First of all you
don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out what
somebody tells you. Okay? If I told you --
MR. DE LEON: Well I'm not a rocket
scientist.
MR. WHITE: Hold it. If I told you that I
no longer speak English from now until next week, you
would have to accept what I told you. Well this is what
the principals are telling me, that they cannot do what
they want to do. They are not -- we have that every day.
Why do you think principals don't call the police when
they have incidents in their school? Why do you think
that happens?
MR. DE LEON: Well if that's a rhetorical
question, then I won't answer it. But if you're asking
me directly for a number of reasons that we both know.
They don't want that kind of attention. But I'm curious
because --
MR. WHITE: No, because they are told to
call the Board first and the Board will decide whether
you call the police.
MR. DE LEON: Okay, so are you saying that
the elected School Board instructs the principals not to
--
MR. WHITE: Thank you.
MR. DE LEON: All right, but is it the --
see now I'm curious. Because what I heard in different
occasions, it's just the Superintendent that tells. So
which is it? Is it the School Board or the --
MR. WHITE: Well it's the superintendent
or the School Board, it's the same thing. He cannot do
what or she cannot do what they want to do because they
are not permitted to do it directly.
MR. DE LEON: Okay.
MR. WHITE: Come on.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Okay. I think we
understand each other here. I think we do. We thank you
very much for your time and your patience with us in
sharing your experiences and your valuable
recommendations, thank you.
MR. WHITE: Thank you for having us.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Our next speaker is the
President of the PTA of P.S. 60, Altagracia Cruz. Is Ms.
Cruz here?
THE INTERPRETER: She's going to read
something in Spanish and I'll translate.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Okay.
THE INTERPRETER: She says that she wants
to read it in Spanish because that way she will be able
to express herself better.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Gracias
THE INTERPRETER: My name is Altagracia Cruz. I want to
thank you very much for taking your time in hearing my
testimony. And I am very glad that you guys are here in
the Bronx listening to the commentary of all the
different entities that are here tonight.
I represent the Leadership Team and I am
President of the PTA of P.S. 60. And I also am involved
in the Leadership Team and the PTA of the satellite high
school. In the satellite high school in the bronx, the
School Leadership Teams is very efficient because
teachers and workers respect the parents and keep us
informed and give us the truth to express our own
opinions.
I believe the parents have the right to
decide representing our kids in our schools. I think we
have the obligation of work together to build a better
community. That's why parents need to have more control
over the decisions that affect our kids.
I think parents deserve to have the
freedom to express their ideas and the ideas of their
children about their education. The majority of the
parents, she believes need more training to learn how to
claim the rights that they have. I am going through a
similar process right now, but not only me. There are a
lot of parents who feel the same.
I have a problem right now with my school
which is P.S. 60, because I open my mind and I claim my
rights. Giving information to other mothers and parents.
Okay, and I was trying to help other parents giving them
information about what's going on in the school. I've
been representing my community for 20 years and right now
because I was brave enough to air some irregularities
that were going on in our school, there are qualifying me
as a liar. And I am really offended by that.
And I am here to let you know that we need
to work together for a better community. And I give all
my support to the POC and to the parents and I hope that
we can get the power that we need to keep moving forward.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: We thank you. Muchos
grasias. And before I just ask if there are any brief
questions, I just want to express our appreciation for
you coming down tonight and I can assure you that there
is no language barrier. We understood exactly what you
were saying to us and we listened and we heard.
THE INTERPRETER: She understand.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Okay. Thank you. We
thank you you again.
Yolanda Gonzales? Yolanda Gonzales is
also a parent advocate from I.S. 174 and P.S. 182, is
that correct?
MS. GONZALES: Correct. GoOd evening Task
Force. My name is Yolanda Gonzales and I'm here not only
as a mother to my children, not only as a parent, but an
advocate for children.
All of us on this side of the table and on
that side of the table, we are all parents first. So
it's very hard to see that our rights have been taken
away of a P.A. or a leadership or anything else on that
forthcoming. The School Board are needed. I understand
that they need to be revamped, updated, but not taken
away. We need this as an avenue in order to come forth
as a group, as a community to make sure that we have a
say so and a right for our children.
What are we going to bestow to our
children as for education? It's not enough to have
updated books because it's desperately needed, updated
tools just as computers, literacy, the Internet, but we
have to upgrade the teachers as well in order to have a
bioduct for the children to learn.
We, as parents, are the first teachers of
our children. But we are also the last teachers of our
children and they look at us for guidance. It's not
enough to say well we're going to do it this way and
we're going to do it that way. And we're going to make
more rules and regulations. And by the time we learn the
old rules and regulations, we have news ones posed on us.
What is left to say that we as parents
forgo all our rights. You're a parent as well. And
you're going to stay and sit there and say, boy are we
going to let that happen? It's impossible.
We have students that are learning in the
hallways because we don't have enough schools, because
the Planning Systems and the Planning Boards keep
building family homes, but they do not build schools,
they do not build enough schools for these children to
learn.
The monies that are appropriated for
houses outweigh the money that's appropriated for
schools. They don't even build new schools. They can't
even -- they cannot update the schools that they're in
now. They're not quality and quality issues that
healthwise, we need all of these issues addressed to.
We, as parents are guardians to our children. We have
to, as our God given right to defend these little
children, even if they are in high school, because they
cannot defend themselves.
We have to teach them how to progress in
life, because at the end, they're going to take care of
us. So we have to take care of them so they can take
care of us. Give them the education. Give them the
powers and the tools in order to make a better life for
everyone involved.
We as tax payers pay for education. But
our children bring it back to the school system because
they do have value. We need as parents, as guardians,
and I can't emphasize this enough in order to evolve as
humans, as humanity, we have to teach our children the
ways that we've been taught not only to be an island to
themselves, because that's impossible to do. Because
they're not only part of a family, part of a community,
but part of a nation. And as a nation, as Americans, we
have to give this to our children.
If Japan and China can educate their
children at the age of three, starting at the age of
three, we can do the same with our children. It's very
important, because education starts at the house, but it
goes within the schools. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Well we thank you very
much, Ms. Gonzales. And I think that your children and
the children that you look after in the larger school
community are very lucky to have you as their parent
advocate.
Does anybody have any questions? We thank
you so very much for being here with us tonight.
We have four individuals who arrived this
evening and asked at the time to testify and I will see
if those individuals are still here. Anna Lopez?
Richelle Braithwaite? Was I close? Oh, good. New York
Youth At Risk, Inc.
MS. BRAITHWAITE: Good evening everyone.
Actually this is my first time ever coming to one of
these things. I am what's called a course leader for New
York Youth At Risk and today I went to a patenting high
school here in the Bronx, and the main reason why I said
I would come is because there's a lot of talk about
cutting the funding for those schools. And patenting
team moms are some of the most -- what can I say about
them? They really need our help. They are very much
like the babies that when they have them, which is of
course ahead of time, and not being very skilled, they
need help. And if we cut funding and if we don't
prepare, one of the major complaints I keep hearing in
these patenting schools is that the way that they're
designed, does not really serve the population that
they're serving.
So I'm here basically just to let you know
how in danger these young people are. Because just like
the babies that they raise, that every time they see them
attempting to walk, they reach out their arms to them and
say come on. You can do it. You can do it. These young
ladies are at a very, very delicate point in their lives
where they are -- they have brought other lives onto the
planet and they need someone to say to them, come on, you
can do it. Let's hold your hands and let you continue
your education and become the person that when that baby
looks up to, that baby wants to be like you.
I'm not even a parent. I mean I don't
really go to schools or anything. I'm basically a hair
dresser. But I really have a feeling in my heart for all
of these young people who are attempting to be students
and the thing that I recognize, even when I was a kid and
I'd have to say I grew up in parochial schools. But what
I hear young people saying is that they don't have a lot
of faith in what they're seeing as schools and I'm
concerned about that, because they're next.
They're the ones who are going to put
their children in schools and they need to have people
who they are looking forward to interacting with. And I
have no idea of how a deconstruction of community boards
are going to reconstruct themselves. I don't know what
the process is. I know this is part of the process.
But what I'm beginning to find myself
interested in is basically how do we cooperate to make
sure that the outcome of this breaking down of something
that people have said doesn't work, how do we come
together so that the construction of the next thing that
happens for our children, for the parents, for the
democracy that we say we are. And democracy means --
there are a lot of different people who have got to
cooperate, even if we don't agree with one another.
So how do we create a working system for
teachers, for principals, the children, the parents, the
Board, the Chancellor especially. I know the Chancellor
has a very daunting job to get numbers and get these
children's educations on par. There is something that --
I don't know what it is that occurs in my head when we
talk about failing schools. To me a failing school is
like -- what does that mean? What does that mean for the
process that's happening in education.
Is it the students that are failing? Are
the teachers failing? Are the principals failing? Is
the curriculum failing? What's failing? What is going
on here and how can we, as citizens of this particular
city which we have continually said is the greatest in
the world. I mean our crime rate is down. We have
everything really seeming tow work for us and yet we have
failing schools, that fail over a long period of time.
And the people who they're failing are the
people who we want to climb up in society and be our next
group of people who are giving their all to the city,
participating, making it a wonderful place to live,
having wonderful lives. So, to say that we have failing
schools that have been failing for a long time is, I
don't know how to wrap my mind around that.
Because it seems that it's allowable and
it's okay somewhere. And that what we fight is for not
to make that an outmoded thing, but we fight for some
kind of control over it. I would rather control -- you
know, if the deconstruction is going to give us schools
that work, and curriculums that work and teachers and
parents and chancellors that work together, go right
ahead. Please deconstruct so we can hear new words when
we talk about our children.
So we can have new feeling about how this
city is and how it places in the rest of the world. And
I think it gives people who may say that they're on the
lower edges of society, it doesn't mean that they don't
want to move up. And it doesn't mean that their children
don't want to move up. What is means is that helping
hand out there.
And we're not talking about money.
Participatory democracy means that there's something that
you've got to learn. You're not born knowing how to be
democratic. And my request is that whatever the next
construction is for communities to participate in their
School Board and their children's learning, in the cross
cultural melange that happens when people come together
who are different. Whatever that's going to be, have it
not entail the fact that we fail our children in their
education, no matter where that failure comes up.
So I thank you very much for being here.
For having this space and this forum for us to speak.
And I'm going to stay interested. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Thank you. We
appreciate your being here. Thank you very much.
Our next speaker is Gwendolyn Primus.
With our apologies, I understand that you were here. We
must have overlooked the fact that you were here. And
that's probably my fault. So I apologize to you and Ms.
Primus is the President of Community Schools Board 9, so
it was a major oversight on my part.
Thank you for waiting.
MS. PRIMUS: Thank you. Good evening
Panel and Panelists. I thank you for coming to the Bronx
and listening to us this evening. First I want to start
off by thanking many of my peers who spoke earlier today
about continuing Community School Board in the manner
that it should be.
But I got the news earlier today from my
elected official that it would be a waste of breathe,
that they're looking for something new. So being the
good leaders that we are in District 9, we always have a
contingency plan.
Therefore, we are here tonight in support
of our Borough President, Adolofo Carrion's plan, which
constitutes parents from the ground root, not from the
top down, but from the bottom up. And that's what the
Parents Association, School Leadership Teams which will
then elect parents to a district parent council who will
then move on and be elected to a Borough Board, which
will consist of 21 members, 12 of them being parents, one
being a Borough President, three of them being
superintendents of an elementary, middle school and high
school, and five others appointed by the Borough
President. And this particular board will be aligned
with Community Planning Board, which will then -- this
person will be selected by the Borough President and move
onto the city board.
And there's no need to give you any
testimony because Adolofo gave it this morning and I'm
quite sure that you have it. But in closing, I would
just like to say to all the parents, they can't give you
what you already possess, and that is power.
If you don't already acknowledge that you
as parents have the power, you're already starting behind
the eight ball. And some of the rights and
responsibility that you're sitting before the Panelists
asking for tonight, you already have and it already
exists. You just need to know where it is and how to
utilize it better. And whatever comes out of the
parents, whatever decisions that you make, you need to
know that you need to fund it because then you'll have a
mess on your hand again, like you did before 1996, before
the new governance with Community School Board.
I'm one of the new Community School Boards
who came after the governance. Who had to really define
our roles as Community School Boards who used it to the
next to try to improve the quality of education of our
kids in District 9.
But I have to say for the record, that it
was allowed for so long for our schools to fail before we
got a hold of it. And just let me say also for the
record that it was at that time that we decided as P.A.
President to run for Community School Board because I did
serve as a P.A. President elementary, junior high and
high school, President of President's Council for six
consecutive years in District 9 before we decided that we
were going to take over the School Board and let me let
you know that they did try to oust us, but we ran as
write ins and we won.
MS. PRIMUS: And this is why we kept our
notes and stayed focus for the past seven years on
Community School Board 9, children was first, remained
first and we're proud of that. And I don't know what
Community School Board have done in the past six to seven
years that resulted in this decision, but it really looks
like it has been a design from 1996 to dismantle school
board. But I do understand because I do stay abreast of
the decisions that our elected officials made. And I do
know that it was part of the negotiating factor that
budgets would not be cut from city schools.
I hope you know that you were really
bamboozled, because we are really undergoing some bad
cuts in the district now. People are receiving pink
slips as we speak. Children would not have Christmas
because of the Governor not keeping his promise not to
cut the budget in New York City public schools.
So I ask whatever decisions you make, it
needs to be funded. It needs not to be just in words and
in paper, and give it to people to put in effect. But
you need to put the money behind it.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Thank you very much.
We are so appreciative that you waited for us. Again I
apologize for the oversight in not calling you a little
bit earlier in the evening. But we so much appreciate
your advice and your counsel to us and we take it to
heart. Thank you.
Our next witness is David Francis, Member
of Community School Board 10. Thank you for waiting.
MR. FRANCIS: Thank you Members of the
Panel for hearing my brief testimony. I'm a Member of
Community School Board 10. I'm one of the newest members
of Community School Board 10. I was appointed in
September. And although I'm not a parent, I'm a
community person in the Bronx. I've grown up in the
Bronx. I went to all Community School Board 10 schools.
I graduated from a public high school, Kennedy High
School and graduated from a public university.
Unfortunately I went to a private law
school and I'm now looking for a job.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: That will teach you.
MR. FRANCIS: I joined the Community
School Board 10 mainly because I wanted to give something
back to the community and I thought this would be a great
way to do it. I believe that education is very
important and the community should have more involvement
in knowing what their -- not their children but in fact
all of their children are learning and how they're going
about doing it in where they go to school and how they go
to school and under what conditions they go to school in.
I've been a member for a couple of months.
One of the great things I like about the School Board is
that every one has their say. And anyone can come up to
a public meeting and say what they dislike or like about
a school or a policy or anything like that. The members
of the Board led by the President Cordell Schachter and
Vice President Ted Weinstein, everyone on the Board is
very -- listens very well and we try our best to honor
those people that come to speak to us.
And I'll keep my comments pretty short.
There's three things that I would like to see, if not a
School Board but whatever replaces a School Board
happens. I'd like to see more community involvement.
I'd like to see more people come out in support of their
schools, their public schools, even if they're not a
parent. Recently we had a transit strike -- recently we
almost had a transit strike, excuse me. And everyone was
on the same boat and everyone tried to do a contingency
plan. I think that that same ideas of having contingency
plans should be done with education. Everyone should get
involved and say look, our schools really need our help
and we should all get together and try to help our
schools out.
A second thing I would like to see is more
student involvement. It is their education. I would
like to hear what they have to say and hear where they
would like to be teached, what works for them, what
doesn't work for them. It would be pretty hard to go
through each grade by grade, but a brief comment by
students that come together would be pretty helpful in
trying to improve education.
And third, would probably be based on
population. It's been noted many times that School Board
10 is a very big School Board and in something that
limits the population, I don't know how that would work
out. Whether a 10 school limit or a population limit,
that would really help out in terms of being able to
pinpoint ideas and to be more responsive to everyone that
goes to these schools. And that's basically it and I
hope that something that is going to replace School Board
will have everyone able to come out and say their peace
and all lead to the better education for our children.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Thank you very much,
Mr. Francis. Let me just observe that I think Community
School Board 10 has been very well represented here
today. We heard from your President, Mr. Schachter, and
we heard from Mr. Weinstein a little earlier and during
the morning session, Dorothea Marcus was here and I can
understand why you are all very proud of the work that
School Board 10 does. You've had very, very good
representation on the board. And we thank you for being
here tonight.
MR. FRANCIS: Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Thank you. The last
witness that we have, having signed up either previously
today or during the day today is Neyda Franco.
MS. FRANCO: Good evening.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Good evening.
MS. FRANCO: I just signed up because
after listening to some of the testimony I felt I needed
to speak.
One of the most important things before I go into what
the subject and the purpose that we're here for, as you
stated, representation. District 10 was very well
represented. I'm sure, where are all the districts?
Where is the involvement? How many people were informed
that these hearings were out?
The only reason I found out was because I
work for a community based organization and they got an
invitation. But I, as a parent, did not get an
invitation.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: I should just let you
know that every -- as far as we know, every parent
association in the city received a notice about ten days
ago. So we tried very hard to disseminate this
information as best we could. We're very glad that you
found out.
MS. FRANCO: PTA's and P.A.'s do not get
all their information out. Because if they don't get
their meetings out, how do they get out what's happening
in the community. Okay? Good? I mean District 10, like
I said, I see all they were here, but District 7, we're
right here. This is our community. Walking distance.
This place should have been packed with District 7
people, and it's not. I'm going to repeat again, because
the communication is not there. Representation and this
is what happens with the parents. We do not get the
information. We do not get the representation. But I'm
going to go back and say why we should not have community
school boards. I'm one of the biggest fighters. And
I've been on the Board. I was appointed trustee to the
Community School Board in District 7, and I fought to get
the School Boards out. Because in this district, it's
all politics. It's not about children's education.
And yes, the parents do have the power.
We have the power of parents. These are our children and
we must be educated to the point where we will be able to
make decision making policies for our children. Not that
there aren't some of us that have been here for a long
time. For instance, I've been here for 25 years in the
education field.
School Boards have been used as stepping
stones for politics. This district they were removed and
brought back. In order for our children to continue or
to start getting what's right for them, we have to have
people that have vested interests in the education field.
Parents have the biggest vested interest, their children.
Their best commodity is their children.
So when you set up a panel or whatever is
going to replace the School Boards it has to be parental
involvement. But again, it's a matter of interpretation
of what is parental involvement. Do you want us to bake
cookies? Do you want us to do bulletin boards? Or do
you want us to actually sit down with budgets and know
how to calculate budgets and how to move the money around
to help the CP plans. That has to be taken for.
It's not about having people appointed or
elected. It's about having people that have vested
interest. If it's not a vested interest that you don't
have a political or job motive, it's not going to work.
We'll continue to reinvent the wheels and you will still
be failing. Our children are the ones that are failing.
It's about making sure that the children not just one,
not just one district, it's all the children in New York
City. So this Panel or whatever you do, please make sure
that the recommendation is that the parents are totally
involved.
You may have a few but this appointment by
politicians is not going to help, because there will
always be politics in education. That is the stepping
stones to politics, education. That's where everybody
starts off with these Community School Boards. We have
to stop that, make sure that it's about the education of
the children and that the people that are appointed to
this Panel, whatever you decide to do are parents or
vested interests.
It could be grandmothers, Godmothers. I
represent everything. I'm a grandmother. I'm a
Godmother. I'm an aunt. A cousin, I have every field.
But you know what, I look at them all as one. It's about
education. Educating our children, making the best for
our children and anybody that's in this Panel or wherever
they are, make sure that these people, education is their
first priority to our children, not politics.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Thank you. We thank
you very much. Just for the record I should make mention
the fact that there were four members from Community
School Board 7 who had pre-registered to be here and
unfortunately they did not attend. But they did know
about it because they did indicate last week that they
wanted to testify but they were unable to make it.
There was one additional person who came
in. I think she's in the back. Debra, come on up. I
can't quite make out your last name.
MS. YOUNG: The last name is Young.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: Okay. Debra Young,
Vice President of the PTA from MS-142.
MS. YOUNG: District 11.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: District 11.
MS. YOUNG: Yes, good night. I came to
observe the meeting on behalf of my colleagues.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: I will have to ask you
to make it as brief as you can. We were supposed to be
out of here at nine.
MS. YOUNG: It's going to be quite brief.
And after hearing my peers speak and the different
districts that was represented, I sat down there and I'm
twiddling and I said I need to represent my district.
Now my peers, I'm telling you lack of communication says
a whole lot for the parents. Because a well informed
parent is going to be an effective parent. And we know
what child or children need. And that's where we do not
get the respect from the school system as a parent. They
do not respect us as parents.
And when we confront them with what the
child needs, we are questioned, instead of helping us to
maneuver our way to better the system. We are questioned
about what the child needs.
If I come to you and I say the river is
running straight. But if you want it to go this way, you
have to build a duct and then it turns. You know you
follow suit, because the river is not going to go this
way, not unless it's over flooded.
But it's lack of communication, sir. And
we need the majority of parent involvement, because
without the parents our system will never get great. It
will still stay. Our children will be falling behind and
failing behind continuously.
To be a super power nation, we have to
educate our children, each and every one to that super
power level so they can be decisive people, making
worldwide decisions when they grow up.
And we are parents. The children have to
be involved. Administrations have to be involved,
teachers and parents. We all, four sets have to be on
the table making the decisions over what goes on in the
Department of Education and in their school districts.
Without that we are imbalanced.
That's all I have to say. Good night.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: We thank you very much,
Ms. Young. And although I did mention a moment ago that
we were supposed to be out at nine, we promised Hostos
that we would, there is still yet one more person who I
will ask if she can make her remarks very brief. And
that is Almada Tramel, from the President -- Vice
President of the President Council for District 7.
MS. TRAMEL: I'm going to make it brief.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: We thank you.
MS. TRAMEL: Basically I just want to say
that when we talk about parent involvement -- well first
let me introduce myself. My name is Almada Tramel. I
represent District 7. I am a newly elected Vice
President for the President Council. I'm also PTA
President of P.S. 29. I wasn't planning on speaking, but
I have to represent for my district.
I think that when we started talking about
community board, we must remember we're talking about
parent involvement. One of the things that must be kept
in mind is that parents need to understand their key
role. That is speaking and understand what they're
speaking about. So it's a lot of training that must come
forth so when the community board is redeveloped, instead
of taking away, that's what we need to look at. Because
I speak to my members. I'm not afraid to say what I want
of my community board members.
We have to be in touch with one another.
We have to understand it works in a circle. Community
Board, which is basically about community partnership.
Parent involvement we're talking about parent
association. And then we have to involve the principals
and the staffing and everyone else.
But parents must first realize their role.
We must not be afraid to speak up. So we have to keep
that in mind that if we are not afraid to step out, even
if it's a little scary at first, research all the
knowledge you have to. It's better to seek knowledge
than to sit back and say well whatever. And that's what
we need to stop doing in these communities, stop saying
well they're just going to do what they want.
No, they're not. If you don't vote, if
you don't get involved, then nobody will hear your voice.
So that's why sometime parents have to suffer and
represent for a few parents or a few schools and that's
what the community board does. It step up and it
represent for the parents.
Because sometime the parents feel that
they don't have a voice, but they do. But with the
community board, that board can be parallel to other
levels with the superintendent, within the community,
because sometime let's face it. People are more able to
hear something from a community board member than they
are from just a parent.
And I'm paraphrasing that just a parent,
because sometime I think that we disillusion ourselves I
think and parents don't know what they know. But they
do. We have highly qualified educational parents that
are out here doing a job and we do it for free. We have
to bear that in mind.
Sometime the community board might go
array but that's because the parents didn't stay
involved. So when we re-enact the community board,
parents must be there, attend all of the meetings, even
those meetings where we don't get to speak. And attend
all the information and readily pass it out instead of
just holding onto it for yourself.
So I want to thank you for letting me
speak today and have a nice night.
CHAIRMAN SANDERS: We thank you for being
here with us so late. Let me conclude by making just a
couple of very brief observations.
First of all, I want to express my
appreciation to all the Task Force members. We have 20
members, 19 are including Terri Thomsom by telephone were
here during most of the day, certainly during parts of
the day.
Our next public hearing will be on Staten
Island on Monday, January the 16th and that will be
followed -- excuse me, thank you, on Monday, January the
6th and that will be followed by our last public hearing
in Brooklyn on Thursday, January the 16th. The Task
Force expresses its appreciation to all the staff people
who helped make this happen. Not only the staff people
who helped the Task Force, but the staff people from
Hostos College who provided these very nice -- this very
nice room for us to hold this event and this hearing and
really did a terrific job in setting up and making sure
that the Task Force members, as well as the community
were so welcomed into their facility, a beautiful
facility it is.
And mostly, we want to express we, the
members of the Task Force want to express our
appreciation to the men and women, the parents, the
residents of the great county of the Bronx, led by your
Borough President Adolfo Carrion. We heard from many
people from the Bronx today. We listened. I think those
of you who were here a lot during the day know that we
listened intently.
We engaged in some questions. But we have
been advised by you about what you feel that your
community, your borough, our city needs in terms of
community representation as we go forward.
So I want you to know that we will be very
mindful of all that we have heard during this very long
day today.
We will be making our recommendations to the State
Legislature and the Governor as the law requires on
February the 15th. We'll make sure that those
recommendations are accessible to everybody.
I also want to thank, I know she's left,
but I want to thank Nancy who was here as our translator
and of course, Eddie who wishes I would stop already.
And that seems to be a popular decision. But thank you
Eddie for taking down all of the wisdom that was spoken
by the residents of the Bronx today.
And again, we will reconvene in Staten
Island, on Staten Island January the 6th. Thank you very
much.
The hearing is adjourned.
(Time noted: 9:20 p.m.)
C E R T I F I C A T E
I, EDWARD LETO, do hereby state that I attended at the
time and place above-mentioned and took a stenographic record
of the proceedings in the above-entitled matter, and that the
foregoing is a true and correct copy of the same and the whole
thereof, according to the best of my ability and belief.
________________________________________
EDWARD LETO - Hearing Reporter
Dated: January 14, 2003
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